Ducks Unlimited Podcast

00:00 John Gordon Hello everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host, John Gordon. It's February and out there in Waterfowl land. Basically what's left is conservation snow goose hunting. And that's what brings my two guests today together is a mutual love of chasing the white goose around the Arkansas Delta. So I want to welcome Chase Gartner, these owner-operator Nomad Outfitters and Kristian Lilley, Aberdeen Wild Wings from Aberdeen, Scotland. Guys, welcome to the DU podcast. Thanks for having us, John. Pleasure to be here. You know, I got it snow goose hunts for a long time and we talked about this before that it's not for the faint of heart. You know, a lot of things will come in for three, four days, but they don't know what the real grind is of doing this on a day-to-day basis. So I mean, you two haven't slept a whole lot. I don't believe in the last, you know, season opened. The weather has been crazy to start the season. We had an ice storm to now it's back up to 65 degree temps, rain, sun, wind, no wind. It's been a crazy up and down season so far. Interesting how the two of you came together. Okay. So I want to talk about that a little bit. I mean, Chase, you're originally from Nebraska, am I correct? Right. And then of course, Kristian, you've got a very interesting backstory. The fact that you were born in South America and then traveled to Scotland. So talk a little bit about how y'all came together in the Arkansas Delta. Yeah. I mean,

01:27 Chase Gartner I think especially this day and age social media plays such a big part in, you know, I think everyone being able to meet people across the world and obviously been very lucky to have hunted with some great people over the years. And I think one of the places that hadn't been before was Arkansas. I've been very lucky to hunt in South Dakota and Nebraska and Missouri and Arkansas was another place on the list. So it was obviously for me to try and find somebody to hunt with and potentially look at being able to take clients over from Scotland and Europe. So we stumbled, oh, it seems like honestly years now we've been friends. It's been a while. It's been a while. Yeah, it's exactly that. We've shared some, some fun memories along the way, but pretty much had reached out to Chase and, you know, he was just great from the get go. And I think almost within a few months, I think it was before my season in Scotland started. I kind of looked into it and we spoke about it. And then before I knew it, February came my seasons from October to January. So obviously it just lines in perfectly for then coming over for a conservation season here in Arkansas in February. So yeah, I think it was literally, it was kind of just, it happened straight away. And I think we never looked back since. And it was one of the best things I did was obviously reaching out and it's great because you do get to meet so many different people from across the world. And I think everyone shares the kind of same passion from there. So it's, it's not like there's something that you're, you know, you're not going to click with and it's kind of just grown from there over the years. And, you know, here I am and you know, for, for all my sins,

03:00 John Gordon I keep coming back. Well, it's been a wild ride. Yeah. And it's interesting how the three of us met, you know, and people can see this all on D.U. Nation, our YouTube series. Ben Vaughn, our South Minnesota Regional Director had, it was interesting the story he told me as well that he had joined the Marine Corps really to see the world. Well, as circumstances had it when he joined the Marine Corps, he, we kind of had a little problem with the, with Iraq at that point. And he ended up in Fallujah and never really saw anything other than the desert. And so he was, he, he, he's out of the Marine Corps going on with his life. And he's kind of lamenting the fact that I never got to see anything. So his wife, you know, being a good wife said, well, why don't you go do it? You know, just start going places and seeing it. And so he looks into things and he said, he really wanted to go someplace different. So he looked into it and said, goose hunting in Scotland. That would be something that's pretty cool. So, and that's of course, rest is history. He, he goes over there

04:03 Chase Gartner and meets you. Yeah. It's so funny. We were just talking about this earlier and it was, it was really nice to see somebody who was obviously so interested in exploring somewhere else. And obviously the first trip for him, the fact that he would consider coming to Scotland was, was quite a big deal. It was obviously a big deal for him, a big deal for me too, because he went about it the right way, obviously all the right questions, making sure we could get him all the right references too. And it's obviously quite an important one for, we do get guys coming from the States. It's something different, not so much for the UK and Europe for guys to do that, but from the States, I suppose it's, it's good for them to know that they're hopefully going with, you know, a reputable guide outfitter, especially if it's the first time going somewhere different. So it was, it was really good to obviously catch up with him. We were, we had the pleasure of hosting him for, I think it was six day trip. Again, it seems like years ago too, because we've obviously been friends ever since. I think it was a nice chance for us to find out more about each other, obviously with what I do as an outfitting business over in Scotland and obviously Ben's involvement with, with Ducks Unlimited, you know, over, over the years too, because I hadn't quite making that as well known at the time, which was really nice for me to, to find that out about him and then be able to ask more of the questions as we got to know each other. And that way it was, it felt like it was a, you know, a really good start to a good friendship and, you know, a good working relationship over the years too. And it's, it's something that was very interesting for me because we don't have, you know, too many organizations that would be as focused on conservation and the likes from there. I certainly come in from the Scotland and UK. It's, it's very different in regards to the way hunting is perceived, you know, guns and that kind of thing. So it was really nice just to be able to kind of build upon that. And, you know, it's hard to believe that that's kind of where, where I am now. There's a lot of, you know, great things that we've, you know, been, been through over the years and, you know, all because of Ben. So absolutely it's been

05:58 John Gordon a great ride so far. Right, right. And folks in the audience need to know that, you know, you can go to events in Minnesota, you know, you and Ben have put packages together for people to come over

06:10 Chase Gartner and join you in Scotland, not only just, you know, for, for Waterfowl, but for, for big game as well. Yeah, that's been a new one for us for this year, which has been really interesting to see just how well received it's been. I couldn't believe when, you know, Ben came up with the idea that it was, I thought, great, you know, it's something different from the Waterfowl. We'd done that over the years. It'd been, you know, very successful, which made complete sense, but he made the suggestion of let's try something different. And obviously something we have back in Scotland is a very big population of deer, roebuck, red stag, you know, fallow deer, seek a deer. But obviously something we specialize in big time is, is a robot hunting, you know, in Aberdeenshire, the fame for that throughout the world for having some phenomenal bucks. So it was very cool to be able to speak with them and put together a package that would be able to encompass, you know, all the kinds of things we'd been doing with the Waterfowl hunters, making sure that you can still experience castle tours, whiskey tours, all the other fun things that make Scotland, Scotland, you know, it's obviously fame for its golf, you know, plenty of other things like I've just mentioned there, but the hunting side's often overlooked. So it was, it's obviously more of a spring summer activity. So it's nice to be able to put something together that it's going to offer, you know, so many people the different chances to come with, you know, their hunting partners, families, you know, everything. I think it's, I just couldn't believe how well it's, it's gone down. You know, Ben and I talked about it last year. I think just before my Waterfowl season began and he, and I said, yeah, here, let's, let's run with this and you

07:45 John Gordon do what you can. And I couldn't believe the interest was just incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, Ben was telling me some of the numbers that they've, that they've raised for the ducks, you know, through those, through those hunts and man, we just, we can't thank you enough for that. You know, you know, Kristian, I mean, it's for guys like you and, and Chase as well, he just, he really helped make all this, this run. Chase, I'll talk to you for a second. Give us a little bit about, you know, who you are, your background, how do you get started in

08:13 Kristian Lilley outfitting and especially why the snow? Because most people shy away from man. It's tough. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. John, this is my sixth year operating Nomad Outfitters. Used to work for a couple other Snow Goose Outfitters in my younger years, just kind of finally realized that I want to take the jump, go, go get into it on my own. Had a better idea of how I want to run the hunts, treat my clients, treat my help and stuff like that. And it's been six years since I started and I've known Kristian for five of those years. And every year that I've been doing it and then that he's been helping me, I definitely feel like we've just kind of gotten bigger and better. And every season has been better. And I mean, the Snow Goose chase, especially what we do in Arkansas, moving fields every day, moving the spreads every morning, it is so much work. Most people don't understand. But once you experience it and are able to get that big spin, like we call it, once you experience that one time, you'll be hooked for life. And that's kind of where Kristian and I are at right now with that

09:27 John Gordon game. The way y'all do it, like I think you've described it as high risk, high reward. Yes, absolutely. Because chasing the feeds is a recipe for killing nothing or killing a bunch sometimes, you know, because they're so unpredictable. That's what people don't understand about white geese is that they, I don't understand what they're thinking sometimes. Just because you saw them somewhere does not mean they're coming back there. And they could be, and they'll hop all over the place and a plane could get them up, anything else. And so you're taking a chance, but down here in wintering area, I very much understand it. Now the guys up farther through the flyway, I could see the permanent spread, South Dakota, Missouri, exactly. Places like that where they hunt them when they're strictly migrating. And so it's a different type of stuff. They've been here the whole winter. Yep. Staying birds. Yeah. Down here. So they got, you got birds coming up from the South, you got adults leaving, you got more birds coming in. So it's definitely a monster challenge. So I commend you for focusing on white geese, man, because you have to be brave to do it. And it's not going to be easy. It's going to be very difficult. Exactly. Exactly. In the course of guiding to, which I was, I did it in Texas for many years when it was there, the cast of characters that you meet along the way, both in the clients and other guides, is pretty amazing. You know, on the DU nation episode, we were with a group of, of guys and a gal from South Florida, that place where they don't get a whole lot of opportunities to hunt waterfowl, especially not white geese or none down there. Right. And those guys were just so generous, you know, I mean, they cooked for us. I mean, they did everything and they just, it just, the people you meet at camp sometimes are really good, you know, and they went, they went full brave heart for you, Kristian, you know, with the face paint and all that. Yeah. You know, if you, once again, this is going to be on DU nation, but, and, and I really like the young cast of guides you put together, Chase, those kids are hard workers. And, you know, I said, I got a chance to hunt next to Colby and Colby got in the nickname Skeeter and how did that come about?

11:41 Kristian Lilley Um, it's a long story. There's a, there's a wildlife refuge area in Texas called Skeeter pond. Some of you out there listening might be familiar with it. He's just kind of well known for taking some pictures of himself with ducks in front of the Skeeter pond sign. And that's how he caught

12:00 John Gordon onto that, that, uh, that nickname Skeeter that everyone loves so much. You've got another really good young guy named Hunter from, from Minnesota. And the Southern guys are always relentless on the Yankee, right? And he was really giving it to Hunter before the hunt started the other day. And man, I just couldn't do it, but laugh. And it brought back so many memories of, of me with other guys and over the years. And the fact that you just, you really kind of, you bond with each other like other guys don't because in the pursuit of white geese and it takes a certain character to really want to do it. And I saw it right there as well. Those are the same guys that I've always been with for the whole, my whole career, chasing those jokers around, uh, Kristian. Okay. Born in Bolivia. Correct. Okay. So give us a little feel of how, how in the world you ended up in

12:50 Chase Gartner Scotland. Yeah, it's, it's quite an interesting mix. Um, very lucky, obviously from a very young age. Uh, I was actually adopted. Um, my parents came from Northern Ireland and they moved over to Aberdeen where we live in Scotland, um, for the oil industry. So many years ago is now. And, uh, luckily I was obviously raised in the countryside. My, my dad was very big into, uh, field trial, uh, with springer spaniels. So that's kind of where it all began, where I would say from a very young age, almost strapped to the back of my dad was out there in the field helping him train dogs. And it was kind of, it was just part of my life. And obviously where we live there, it's obviously a very big culture of, um, driven hunting and walked up, which would be upland over here and where we actually live in Aberdeenshire. It's, um, a very big place for, for waterfowl too. And I think it's something from that side of things kind of really just got me into, uh, really wanted to obviously pursue goose and duck hunting from there, but just super grateful. The fact that to think where I could be, obviously now, um, and I've lived such a great life and had the privilege to be able to be brought up in Scotland to actually pursue this. Um, especially to then, obviously for me, it was, it was very much a big passion, a hobby, um, hunting and then to be able to turn that into a career. And, you know, here I am finding myself over here in the headquarters of Ducks Unlimited. It's kind of hard to believe, very cool experience and something I have to say, you just can't take these things for granted. I had to remind myself of that been very lucky to have been raised by, you know, great, great parents, obviously back home in Scotland. And, again, I have to give them the credit for, for everything, for raising me this way and encouraging me to work hard and, you know, I absolutely kind of follow your dreams is, is, uh, it's kind of sad as that might sound. It's an important one to keep going from there. And that's why I'm here. Um, as a guide, I want to continue to better myself and, uh, by coming over here to obviously guide Snow Geese, uh, for, for a chase at Nomad, it gives me the chance to essentially progress my own skills to be able to then take things that I do here in Arkansas back to Scotland. There's a lot of things that you can say are very similar in the way you set things up and how birds behave. Um, and I think for me it's making me a more well-rounded hunter, um, you know,

15:16 John Gordon as the years go on. It's got to because I just dealing with, and you hunt pink footed geese, right? That's correct. And, uh, from what I've been able to gather from, I have no experience firsthand, but they seem pretty similar to the white goose and how they end their behaviors.

15:32 Chase Gartner And you know, a little, yeah, let's just face it, they're quirky, you know? Yeah, definitely. I think there's a lot of similarities. I think that's why it brings me, you know, back year after year that, um, you can have the most amazing days. They give you big spins. They put on a real show and the next day they leave you scratching your head. You've done everything you possibly can to read them. Obviously whether you're scouting every hour of the day, whether you've been there setting up since two o'clock in the morning, a massive big spread. Um, a lot of the time you just have to do the best you can control the variables you can with regards to your all the scouting, the wind, your setup, which this is why for me it's, there's, it's just so comparable to the snow geese. And then when you do have your good day, immediately all those other times that were, you were, you know, kind of beating your head against the wall. You've, you forget about

16:20 John Gordon them pretty quickly. That's right, man. There's nothing that brings you back. It's almost a parallel with golf. You can hit a hundred crap shots, right? You get one pure shot. Oh man. It just keeps you coming back to that, to that game. Once again, make it beat your head against the wall. Uh, interesting. You talking about dogs because a lot of people start out that way. Dogs bring people into the hunting sports in a lot of different ways. And it's interesting, you know, chase and I've got a mutual friend in Mark Outwater. I've had Mark Outwater on the DU podcast. I've had him on DU nation. I've had him on DU films. So I've, I've, I've really, because of our mutual love of golden retrievers and y'all met Buster. Buster is awesome, man. Bring him in here. Yeah, we can sit. I mean, Buster just would hang out with us. Um, so that's, that's an interesting part that it was, that it was dogs that really got you going and, uh, and your dad troweling springers, uh, over there in Scotland. It's pretty cool. Pretty cool part of it. All right, folks, we're going to take a little break and, uh, we'll be right back with more on the DU podcast. Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Ducks and Linda podcast. My guest today, Chase Gardner of Nomad Outfitters and Kristian Lilley with a K, Kristian with a K, Aberdeen Wildwing in Aberdeen, Scotland. And once again, thanks guys for being here on the DU podcast. I want to switch gears a little bit. We've been talking about snow geese, but we haven't really talked about snow geese in depth and about what it takes to be successful on white geese. And I think determination might be the biggest factor it takes to be successful on snow geese. Never giving up on them because boy, if you're easily discouraged as a hunter, don't be a white goose hunter because they're, they're going to make you so frustrated that you'll quit. That's the biggest thing that I found out about them as a, as guiding them was that, man, you got to have some thick skin and you, and you, and you have to take those good days with the bat. It's not going to be, it's not for somebody who, who, like I said, it's easily, easily dissuade. So I'm going to ask you this first Kristian as somebody who hunts, you know, a different species of goose over there What is it that you think makes a successful snow goose hunter?

18:29 Chase Gartner Gosh, I think there's so many different things that kind of come into my head, but I think going back to the determination, you have to be willing to go out there to give it your best and be able to accept anything that's going to be thrown at you that it's going to change. You can go out and you can have the best, you know, best feed with the birds that you think are the right ones. You have a good hide, you have everything you could possibly need from motion to the right full bodies. And for whatever reason in that day, those birds may just do everything the complete opposite of what you want them to do. And you have to be ready for the next day to have a clear head, to go back at them and not let them beat you down. And I think it's like Chase did say earlier with regards to what keeps coming back when you get that one spin and everything falls into

19:16 John Gordon place. It just makes sense. We had a couple of good ones on the nation and it just nothing like it. There's nothing like it. It makes all those bad memories go away in that one moment. And you realize, oh, well, this is why I'm out here. And this is why I do it. Would you agree with that,

19:32 Kristian Lilley Chase? You got a different take on it. I would say exactly what Kristian said. You have to have a short memory. You have to have thick skin. And then every day you go out there, you have to have confidence in yourself, your guides, your setup, you know, knowing that you are putting in a hundred percent effort and to try to trick these geese that are getting smarter and smarter every year. And you might do everything in your power and it might not happen that morning. It might not happen the next day, but then the day it does happen, you just forget about the rough days, you know, and I don't care who you are, how good of a snow goose hunter you say you are.

20:07 John Gordon Everybody has bad days. Oh, that's the truth. If you're telling everybody that you're, you know, you're making the piles every day. Yeah. You're not being truthful about it because it's not the way it happens. And I think that's a big thing you face with snow goose hunting, especially now in the era of the conservation season now for the 21st year is unrealistic expectations from people. Okay. They're expecting to have these massive slaughters all the time. And it, cause all they've ever seen on video is people's best hunts. And this started way back when I can remember as a kid in the Texas coast, which we had all the white geese at that point, but the population hadn't really boomed the way it has in the past couple of decades. So the limit was five. Okay. When I was growing up, it was, it was five. You could kill five white geese, one Canada, one spec. So seven geese, you know, per man, I mean, it's still a great hunt. Any way you slice it. I mean, that's a great hunt at all, but that kept people's expectations to be like, you know, I mean, and then the limit became seven and then it became 10 and then it became 20. And all of a sudden the door, the number 20 got in people's heads and I saw it, you know, guiding people. And this is back in the days before the conservation season, no electronic collars. We were, you know, using mouth calls and boy really grinding out there. They're thinking, Oh, this limits 20, man. It's just going to be easy. And I'd have to tell people right off the bat, look, we haven't had a limit shoot the entire season. Okay. It's still hunting. Yeah. I mean, think about it. You got five guys out there. It's a hundred bird limit with 20. And it's like, man, I'd almost wish they'd done no limit at that point. It's been like, no, then nobody has any number in their head because it got guys thinking, you know, I think I'm one of the best ones I can remember in Texas. So we had it was like 170 bird shoot, but there was a lot of guns involved. There was like a hundred, like 12 guns. So that was still way, way short of the full limit. And people just, just couldn't understand, you know, how this wasn't easy, you know? And man, they figured it out pretty quickly that, oh, this is not going to be what we thought it was. And, but a lot of guys still kept coming back because like, you're right, you know, you'll, you'll within a three, four day trip, you're going to have that one day where they're going to do it. And it's, it just, it's, it's thrilling to say the least as far as advice goes for snow goose hunters, what's the one thing other than just being determined and everything that you think is the most important part of having success with them? Is it involved setting up? Does it involve hiding? Scouting? The number one, I think that may be the

22:29 Chase Gartner one. I mean, for what we do, I would say, I would say if it wouldn't be scout first because you need to be ideally what you're hoping to do is to put yourself on the X on a feed where the birds are hopefully you could be working with the right birds, even if you're not, you know, birds or birds, adults, juvies, if you are not out there burning up, you know, the diesel to find them, you know, you're losing half the battle to begin with. I think the next thing was kind of close to me. That is to take the time in your hide. I think more than anything else, a lot of people overlook decoys. Obviously the stab is super important too, but in terms of hide, I think it's probably one of the most crucial things. I would always say that people will fall short of if you're having to brush blinds when you think you've got enough cover, you know, get more

23:15 John Gordon never enough. It's never enough. You're right. It's noticed it's become so wary over the years because I think it's a lot of us because of age. The average adult is what? Eight, 12 years old. Yep. Yep. I mean, they've seen it all. They've been shot up and down the flyways for years. And so they're very, you know, they're not coming to just anything, you know, juvenile birds, Ross geese, another thing. They just haven't seen it, you know, where Rosses may have, but I don't poor little Ross goose. I mean, I feel sorry for them sometimes. They just, they can't help themselves, but they make a lot of slow hunts pretty good when it comes down to it. Absolutely. So, well, that's, yeah, that's what I thought. I mean, I think people, another thing people don't really realize is how close attention you have to pay to the weather and what weather you're going to have on any given day, because it's so critical wind direction, sun, no sun, wind speed, all of it plays a factor in what you're going to do. Yep. Lots of variables there. Yeah, absolutely. Is it

24:11 Chase Gartner any different in Scotland as far as it goes or the same, same situation? It's the same world over. I think those are some of the most crucial things that I would say that you want to control every possible element that you can. And then you're obviously going to have something like you said with the wind is, is, you know, the wind, the moon, these are all elements that you, you know, you can't control. You're kind of in God's hands, you know, as it were. And it absolutely does play a big part in how the hunt is going to potentially, you know, maybe turn out. But again, you're still doing the best with your ability from past hunts experience that you have hunting in similar situations to go, okay, this is what we're going to do on this particular day. We were meant to have wind. We now have like two mile an hour wind. So you might as well have no wind. This is what we're going to do. I think you've got plan A, you have to have a plan B and be ready to roll that

25:02 John Gordon out as soon as you can. Another thing that I don't think people take into consideration, they'll, I've seen this all my entire life, you know, from hunting with all kinds of different people from all over the place. They'll take a lot of time and having the best and newest jackets and pants and clothes and guns. They don't spend any time learning how to shoot those guns. Okay. That's a big problem, John. They don't spend any time learning how to hit anything flying on the wing. Yes. And I think that's the most overlooked thing. And I keep telling people, but learn how to shoot. If you think you're going to be on the ground, go to a skeet field and sit on the ground. Yeah. Practice, practice sitting up shooting. Yeah. It would make such a huge difference in people's experience. And that's the most overlooked thing I think that they do is they don't know how to shoot and, and, and, you know, go and play this for the future clients. And their equipment doesn't work. Their guns don't work. They're not clean. I mean, they don't even function. Yep. Yeah.

25:59 Kristian Lilley If you're going to come on a trip, take the time to travel, you know, pay money to come hunt with a guide, clean your gun before you come, uh, go to the, go to the clay range, the skeet range, you know, I've just seen it way too much where you get one big spin, maybe one or two or three or four. And there's always a couple of guys that their guns aren't working. Um, and we genuinely feel bad for them. And it's just such a, but then again, it's not your fault. It's, you know, um,

26:26 John Gordon it's disappointing for them and it's a little frustrating for us at the same time. Yeah. And along those, uh, same lines, you can get into often this whole rabbit hole of shotgunning, you know, and shooting things flying, but, um, you know, know your gun. Yeah. A lot of people showing it with brand new equipment. They've never fired. Very good point. Yeah. Different shells.

26:45 Chase Gartner Yes. They got a deal of shells on something and you choke tube, a combination of everything altogether and they just expect it to just be put it together, make it work. And it doesn't, I think people are too tightly choked in a big way. I agree. I agree. For most that aren't used to shooting that way. I mean, we've seen examples, even in the past week we've been here, we've had some amazing spins and it's almost hard to believe when you don't see some of the rain but even then sometimes outweighs it in a way that the experience alone, you know,

27:14 John Gordon it's still fantastic for everyone to see. And a big part of it, I think too with that is with guys using extensions, especially they're just shooting at air. They're not picking out birds either. That's a huge part of it. It was a pressure with a big number of birds. Yeah. Yeah. Focus on one until it's down and then another. Yes. And then it's hard to do when there's 200 in your face. Right. And they just start rattling away with like machine gunning, you know, it doesn't work well. People get excited, which is good. It's a good thing. It is. It is good. But to a point, you know, the success rate would be a lot higher if they just follow that those things. Christie, we talked about this at length and we talked about it today as well that North America is kind of unique in the fact that it's a very conservation minded group of individuals, both hunters and non-hunters, people who are really concerned about the resource in Europe, Great

28:07 Chase Gartner Britain. It doesn't seem to be the case. Am I correct? Yeah, I would say it's very different just the way that obviously in the States, I think there's a lot closer connection with certainly with hunting and the conservation side of things that it's there's many people over here that that do it. It doesn't matter whether from the city or whether from the country. As we're back home, certainly in the UK as a whole, those that hunt or participate in anything that would be kind of field sports related, they are very much or we are very much a minority. There are a few organizations obviously back in the UK which would be doing their best to ensure that both hunting, shooting, you know, all the out to pursuits that we have that they're trying to protect everything as a whole, which is obviously very tough, especially the way things are across the world with regards to gun control. It's very easy for them to put a lot of that on to just, you know, the guns, the gun ownership, as opposed to obviously those that are using guns for legally hunting and someone from there. And they, I would say they bypass the very much the traditional side of, you know, the sporting lifestyle that there is within Scotland, you know, the whole of the UK. And I think with that there's there are certainly organizations that do try and focus on the conservation side of things, but I think there could be a lot more that is done. And even then, it would be better if there were, you know, organizations kind of such as this obviously with Ducks Unlimited, been able to focus on, you know, the conservation more, but in a way that it can be relatable to the general public. And I think that's where if you're a hunter, you're a hunter as a hunter, it doesn't matter from one side of the world to the next, we understand our own fight that we have. But when you're trying to try and recruit, you know, new people that want to get into this or indeed, you know, bring on the younger generation, because it's like for me, those are fond memories that like I've just talked about being out in the field with my father, you know, while he's training all the Spaniels. These are things that there's probably many kids out there for certainly back in the UK that they, it's not as socially acceptable for them to be doing some of the same things that I did as a kid. And, you know, I'm a father myself and, you know, I have a 10 year old daughter who I absolutely love that she's kind of following in my footsteps to the extent that she wants to be out and enjoying the outdoors. And this is where for me, I want to instill in her for, you know, for years to come, that, you know, we're the custodians of the countryside as is the way we see it back in, you know, the UK and that there are many other organizations that they understand where we need to be. It's, I think, how we reach that end goal. And I think for our side of things, we could be doing with having more organizations to come together if there was one bigger one that would allow us to be able to see that we are doing a lot more, you know, for the wildlife. And I think that's one of the most interesting parts that when I first met Ben, that you, you know, you can learn so much from reading books or in magazines or seeing on Facebook or YouTube, whatever it is, but when you're actually, you know, speaking to somebody and you can tell the passion, I mean, the things that Ben was telling me over the years and so on, it made me feel that, you know, if I can give something back, especially, you know, through DU, I've been, it's been a pleasure for me to do so because I can see how much that's really going back into, you know, helping people. And it's, I would love to be able to do things like that and have done things similar back home in the UK, but it's only my own personal opinion that I don't believe that it's, it's, it's been delivered in such an extent as it has been over here. So this is why I've continued to, you know, want support through obviously doing auctions with Ben and I think it's certainly, it's helped broaden my, you know, horizon of just where we need to be back in the UK, but I think we're, we are still a while away of, you know, even a tiny bit where, you know, likes of DU is just now. And, you know, I'd love, I'd love to see that change. I really would and, you know, hope that certainly in the years coming, that certainly some of the organizations might be able to get together and, you know, you know, use DU as a better example of

32:11 John Gordon where we need to be. Agreed, agreed. I think we're, you know, we're fortunate here in the US. And I know Chase, you would agree that we've got a bunch of organizations around the country. Yeah, no question. You know, devoted to conservation that they don't have. And, and as being a part of Ducks Unlimited, I can really appreciate guys like Ben Vaughn, right? The guys who are on the ground with the volunteers, working with the college kids, the varsity students in high school and everything, really bringing them into the next generation of it. And then making relationships with guys from not only in North America, at this point around the world, to really furthering the DU mission. So the unsung hero, the regional director for Ducks Unlimited, for folks who don't know, that's the guy behind the scenes at every banquet. He's there. You may not know who he is, but he's there, you know, working hard to raise more money for wetlands conservation. Man, it's been great. I want to, I like to close out a lot of podcasts with talking about favorite hunts, or just ones that, you know, end up being a favorite or just it's very memorable hunts. And you know, we've been talking snow geese and y'all are both, you know, big time snow goose hunters. So think back in your mind, just give me a snow goose hunt that you can, you know, look back on it and say, man, I'll never forget about that. So I'm going to start with you,

33:29 Chase Gartner Kristian. Gosh, there's probably so many of them to look back on for all the good reasons and the bad reasons. But certainly for me, I mean, I've had some very memorable hunts with Chase over the years. I think especially because it's allowed me to be so involved with the whole set up of, you know, everything from the spreads in the way that we run the clients, all these kinds of things. I've taken a lot with that, being able to put my own touches onto, you know, the way the hunts are delivered. And I feel that's, there's certainly been one particular one where we've had with some of the Wisconsin guys. And I think when you have such a great team of guys that everyone's there to have fun, I think sometimes it's very easy to get caught up on the numbers game and, you know, all that kind of side of things. But when you're out there to have fun and everything else comes together, everything else is just a bonus. And I think the fact that you can share the feel with people and, you know, have such a great time and, you know, still have a successful hunt, then, you

34:37 John Gordon know, across the board, it's been an absolute win. Yeah. And no matter how many, you know, birds you shoot, I think, right, with Snoggy's hunting, a lot of it, like I said, once again, it's the people you're hunting with that make a huge difference. I've been with a lot of folks who were just, like you said, just focused on how many can we take down and not really taking in the whole experience. Yeah, exactly. That's a big part of it. Chase, you got a hunt that just comes to your

34:59 Kristian Lilley mind? The one that really sticks out is probably about six years ago in Arkansas. It was during the conservation season, we had a group of six clients, some older gentlemen, super nice guys. They did not have extension tubes. And we were able to shoot, I think, 276 and about they were still coming in and we had shot that many. And they just looked at me and said, I think we're good. I think that's enough. And in my mind, I was like, let's keep going. But then I realized that, hey, it's your hunt. This is what you're here for. It was just really amazing that we did that well. And that we got to that point could have kept shooting. But we didn't because I did my job and they were basically tired. Their shoulders were worn out.

35:52 John Gordon That's right. And well, I Kristian, you probably experienced that too. And in places that has no

35:57 Chase Gartner limit in Scotland, you know, I mean, guys that are like, wow, I mean, we've had enough of it. We do. And I think that this is always a big one that gets, you know, opposed to me. We have no limits. So everyone comes with their expectations. It's kind of like conservation season here that, you know, you have to shoot as many as you can. I mean, I like to self-impose a limit. But at the same time, we will get a lot of hunters that come from the States where limits it's just in them. Same with a lot of French clients too. And where the perception would be, it's funny from kind of British people looking, looking out, looking in, if you like from there, they would think that these guys want to shoot, you know, piles all day. The amount of people that I've had come from the States and France that are, I would say for my self-imposed limit, they've shot less than that. But what I pride myself on more than anything else is I would rather shoot 20 decoyed birds than seven or 80 birds that are, you know, 40, 50 meters out. And I think, yeah, exactly. You know, it hits home for a lot of people that there are so many people out there that they, we share the same ideology. And again, it comes back. I mean, don't get me wrong. You can, you know, you can want to pile them up as much as anybody else, but if you are, if I'm doing my job and I'm putting the birds in their face, you know, on their lap, and, you know, these guys are struggling to shoot them at, you know, 10 yards or they're having a look at birds. We know when I call the shot, they get up and they go, it's too close. What one do I shoot? You know, and for me, that's, it's awesome to see that you've been able to exceed someone's expectations and that they've been able to, you know, have the respect for themselves to go, hey, I'm done. You know, we've got three more days left. If I shoot another 60 birds, you know,

37:38 John Gordon and we're done within half an hour, we've had a great time. Yeah. In the history, there was a lot of guys like Nash Buckingham. We were upfront, you know, both two and one are up there. And we, he was one of those guys that, you know, the, even the limits were big. They, you know, he's self-imposed on himself that he wasn't going to shoot, you know, the limits anymore. He was, he was going to, to, to go below that. And I get it. I'm after, you know, you can only do so much with it and then it becomes, you know, a little excessive. So, you know, I, I've been fortunate just like the two of you have to have harvested a lot of birds in my life. So at this point, it's really all about the experiences, man. And I had a great time with D U nation with, with y'all. Like I said, from, from, from the Florida crew to the, you know, the young guys out there, you know, man, busting their, their butts trying to make it happen. It was a great experience. Once again, everybody can check out D U nation on YouTube. We've got a lot of content up now at this point, but this, this will be our first snow goose hunting episode. And, and once again, I got to

38:42 Chase Gartner shake a shout out to Ben Vaughn, you know, thank you for bringing this together. Thank you, Ben. We owe a lot to you. Absolutely. I'm sorry you couldn't be here to join us today, Ben, but, you know, absolutely I've appreciated working with him for the last few years and I, we owe a lot to him and I think it's, it's been working well for everybody. It's nice to see that something, you know, like Scotland can really help, you know, bring something so great to you

39:03 John Gordon guys over here in the States. Oh man. And we very much appreciate it. Very much appreciate y'all being on the D U podcast and thanks to everybody out there for listening and for supporting wetlands and waterfowl conservation. Thank you, John. Thanks for having us.