Ducks Unlimited Podcast

00:00 Mike Brasher Welcome back everyone. I am your host Mike Brasher and today we're going to be going up to sort of the northeastern part of North America for a habitat update. We are recording this on July 14th So we're going to be doing a bit of a look back on spring habitat conditions and the way things have unfolded since then and try To paint a bit of a picture on what folks might expect in terms of habitat Conditions what Bert what ducks and geese might have encountered whenever they went back up there to help us with this Conversation is a return guest on the podcast Sarah Fleming our director of conservation Programs for the northeastern US and Sarah is out of the Great Lakes Atlantic region Sarah It's great to have you back. Thanks Mike. Yeah looking forward to giving the update. How are things up there mid-july? Been doing anything exciting actually, I know you and Mike went on a little bit of a trip here recently, right?

00:57 Sarah Fleming Tell us about that. Yeah, we did so Mike my husband and I headed up to st John's Newfoundland head over to the Maritimes to take a look at some of the seabird colonies In that particular area where there are about five days. It was really exciting and highly recommend it Got a chance to see a lot of puffin colonies, you know, Galanules Gannets it just incredible. There's three or four major ecological reserves up there And it was really nice to be able to get out on some of the boats and see some some of the project sites But some of the most high biggest highlights were watching, you know humpback whales breaching 50 yards from shore and Being able to almost touch some of the northern Gannet colonies that are up there. It was it was a really great time. So

01:40 Mike Brasher Very relaxing. Yeah, that's great I saw some of the photos online that that you posted and just a remarkable landscape

01:48 Sarah Fleming Remarkable observations of just those huge bird concentrations super super cool. I was jealous. Unfortunately, we didn't see any eiders but They are they are nesting up in that area just not where we were located

02:00 Mike Brasher I can't be too jealous because maybe about that same time I was on the opposite side of the continent the far edge of the Yukon Delta in Alaska and I did see some eiders I saw some spectacle at eiders, which was an absolute treat for me I haven't had a chance to talk about that on an episode yet But we do have a few things lined up where we're gonna be able to share some of those stories with some of the students And that we're up there with us. So yeah getting away those remote locations the downtime an opportunity to recharge

02:31 Sarah Fleming And that's always great in it. It is absolutely and definitely needed You know we're kicking off our new fiscal year and It's really nice to kind of go out and kind of take a step back and see all the accomplishments and Able actually to check out some of the ducks unlimited work that's going on there hit up some of their projects and it was kind Of nice to see the the bigger landscape perspective One of the things that we'll talk about here as we get into this conversation is of course the Canadian wildfires were y'all did the smoke Affect you on the on your vacation there a little bit. We were fortunate Comparatively to some elsewhere in the country that has been dealing with some pretty significant Air quality warnings to the point where you shouldn't even be stepping outside your your house We had a little haze in the air which did affect some of the ability to be able to see distances But no major warnings that were restricting our activity or requiring us to wear N9 masks So fortunately that the winds were in our favor and didn't blow the smoke over to the Maritimes

03:27 Mike Brasher But it just it has happened. It just wasn't happening during the time we were there. Yeah. Well, that's good And like I said, we'll touch on that here in a bit more a bit later on in the context of what what those wildfires? And those conditions might mean for breeding for breeding waterfowl. I've had several people reach out to us asking about Asking for sort of an assessment of what's this going to mean? Or is it going to impact breeding populations to a degree that we're going to would be able to measure it or recognize it Some of those comments came from folks That I think have an interest in wildfire fires in the western canada But of course, there's wildfires all across canada right now or at least there were I don't I don't know the current to be honest I don't know the current status of wildfire occurrence and severity across canada right now But like a week or two weeks ago whenever I was looking they were Quite abundant across that landscape. So we'll get into a little discussion of that But sarah, I believe we're prepared to talk about from a habitat condition update three General geographies and you can redefine these however, it's appropriate for the way you want to discuss them portions of the great lakes That's obviously a vital area for some locally produced ducks. And so we have a little bit of an update there Also eastern canada the boreal forest and some of the other regions in that landscape I think you have some information for us on and then maybe some some

04:51 Sarah Fleming Input for the northeastern u.s. Did I capture that about right? That's right. Yep. All right. Well Which one would you like to start with? Well, we might also start going east or west to east if you want to do it that way starting in the great lakes And the conditions in the great lakes were very similar As you kind of had east through new york all the way over to new england area Where as many listeners probably are aware we had a relatively dry spring in the northeast However, good news is a lot of our ducks in this particular landscape These particular areas of ducks don't rely on those ephemeral wetlands and are not As particular like they are in the prairies where dry conditions don't have as much of a significant impact on on the breeding populations So we're very happy that our Our habitats in this part of the world are relatively stable. So a dry spring Doesn't set us back too far. But the good news is we've been seeing a lot of Rain in the near recently and so any of those drier ponds have been Regenerated and are providing some really good brood habitat right now. So that's all really good news in that respect And then if I jump it up a little bit further north into to the east coast into the eastern habitat area

06:07 Mike Brasher Before you do that, I wanted to do a bit of a mental calendar of things We had talked to folks It might have even been mike that we spoke with back earlier in the year about how dry Conditions were in like january. I think in the northeastern us. I think it was I don't remember the characterization of exactly how dry it was But I know it it was it wasn't very conducive to moving birds around creating new habitats during the hunting season I recall that but did those did those dry conditions in the northeastern us kind of persist? Into spring and then only recently we've started to see some improvements kind of help us with that the timing of things

06:45 Sarah Fleming So yeah as far as snow cover goes we were relatively um had less on average comparatively to maybe past years So we did enter the spring with with drier conditions Uh warmer temperatures this past winter As you already alluded we had a lot of birds stay a little bit further north just because it didn't get as cold and stuff Didn't lock up as much But the good news is these the springs with the rains and stuff that have been happening over the last few months are helping Regenerate a lot of those areas and we did get some pretty big rains early in the spring to help make up for that loss of the snow cover and a fillability of water, so We're looking good. Um, and as we all know wetlands it's not a bad thing sometimes to enter these seasons with some dry periods that allow the wetlands to cycle and regenerate and And then when we get the heavy spring rains We get some really good lush vegetation that will take off and provide that good nesting cover and brood habitat

07:38 Mike Brasher Yeah, thank you. Yeah. Thanks for that that always useful reminder of of how Wetland systems in that part of the continent are different from some of the others that dominate a lot of our conversation That's not to say things don't get dry there as you as you described I was reading a report I think related to one of the next areas you will talk about U.s. Fish and Wildlife Service pilots have recently completed their their surveys and most of those pilots create some sort of a little report of what they observed and some of them Contrasted with what they've seen in past years and there were I mean it was variable that they the description from main All the way up into eastern canada was some locations had had improving wetland conditions compared to droughts over the past couple of years But then I think that I don't I forget the actual geography for specifically that was referenced, but there was one place where Wetlands were noticeably lower in terms of water levels But there were there's so many wetlands and they're semi-permanent permanent type wetlands that are still a lot of still a lot of habitat there, so anyway just that kind of Despite the stability, I guess my point in saying all that is despite the general stability Of those systems that we talk about they still can demonstrate noticeable effects of drought, right?

08:56 Sarah Fleming Yes, absolutely and I was able to talk to some of our Waterfall biologists and been to your point, you know, these habitats are very stable But fortunately we haven't been able to link any kind of real meaningful Relationships between really dry conditions and an effect on production production Just because there's so much on the habitat on the landscape and these wetlands do cycle

09:17 Mike Brasher Comparatively to the prairies where that relationship is much more in flux. Well, then what about eastern canada? What were you able to to learn? What kind of contacts were you able to make to help us get an idea of how things might be looking there?

09:32 Sarah Fleming Yeah, and again very similar the northeast had very similar weather conditions And i'll give a shout out to our ducks limited canada partners who helped me compile some some data for this report But atlantic canada again experienced a dry spring but with relatively average temperatures The wetland water Wetland water levels are providing good habitat conditions So they're very pleased to see a lot of the broods and production that's going on there pretty much. It's normal Maybe a little bit below normal in most most areas, but as we've already indicated that's pretty standard They're stable areas. So we're not no no concerns there and Um, you know goose broods have started to appear. Um, so we've been seeing a lot of goslings running around which is great And there's been seeing a lot of waterfowl sitting on nests So black ducks and mallards and they're expecting those broods to be showing up soon soon in a lot in the areas where you'll be able To to see them anyways um, and then the current uh conditions are projecting that weather should continue the way it is and for and bode well for good brood success Lots of good brood cover and rearing habitat And then assuming precipitation levels continue the way they are. We should be good going into the into the fall So things are looking really good and I do know our um, Fish and wildlife service and canadian wildlife service partners will be finishing up Some of their banding are starting their banding in august. So we'll be having some more data on kind of canada Canada goose populations after they complete those surveys

11:03 Mike Brasher So What other information were you able to get from the great lakes anything, um Anything from that area because I I know going back to like in the spring I don't remember what things what conditions were like there over the winter period But as they got into spring, I I know the conditions were pretty good But here over the past, I don't know a couple of months things have really entered a drive

11:47 Sarah Fleming Trend any additional insight there from the great lakes similar the great lakes had similar conditions You know if we're talking great lakes north up into ontario and then heading over to eastern canada as well as the new england area I'd say similar trends, you know, we entered the spring dry with having less snow cover than average But you know rains and and other conditions are allowing for for good conditions and similar to the northeast here The great lakes region has similar similar with stable wetland conditions And we're not seeing as much of a flux in some of those areas So I think all in all we're gonna have a have a good production over here in the northeast

12:22 Mike Brasher Okay I must be thinking about some of the more western states in the in the great lakes region that are that are at least they're starting to show some drought conditions based on some drought maps that i'm looking at and um, but that's That's not necessarily as much of an issue for let's say Spring breeding conditions when we get to this time of the year and we start thinking about drying conditions It turns more to concern over brood habitat or maybe

12:49 Sarah Fleming Renesters and things of that nature, right? Yeah, that's definitely correct. And you're right. I apologize I wasn't thinking over towards wisconsin. I was thinking more michigan East but yes

12:58 Mike Brasher So yeah, you hit that right. Yeah. Okay. All good. I I think you and I both talked briefly about some of the reports from wisconsin Their duck survey. I didn't look at the reports from any of the other states But I know wisconsin does a breeding duck survey every year and I think the the breeding population estimates for ducks in that state were about Were similar to pretty similar to where they were last year I forget what their pond numbers were like or um in in that report, but it seemed about average I guess if i'm if i'm just trying to do a High level characterization of wisconsin as the example But you look at drought conditions now and things have certainly i'm looking at the like the july 11th drought map And there's actually starting to show up in southern wisconsin some extreme drought conditions So how that translates to changing water levels in that geography though? I'll have to admit that I don't know because i'm not as familiar with the wetland types there and What it takes to sort of dry up a wetland have you spent much time in wisconsin or any of those landscapes?

14:05 Sarah Fleming Unfortunately, I have not my area mostly has been over from i'd say michigan east But i'm assuming similar conditions where those those areas are a little bit more stable comparatively the prairies But as you start to move more towards the midwest you're going to start to see similar prairie like conditions where it will become more and more Important that we have water in order to fill those wetlands from spring rains

14:27 Mike Brasher We'll bookmark that as a discussion topic for a future episode and maybe bring on I think taylor finger is the is the state waterfowl biologist up there. He'd be a good one to get on I don't think we've had him on as a guest before so we'll we'll bookmark that so taylor if you're listening know that you're on our list so The other topic that we did want to discuss and you tell me if there's anything else to to highlight here sarah, but wildfires and how What should our reaction be? What should our how should we think about those given the scale given the intensity? and any Like help us help us think about what those wildfires mean from a waterfowl production standpoint This year as well as long term the extent to which we have any understanding

15:13 Sarah Fleming Yeah, so it's definitely a very hot topic and we've been receiving a lot of calls and inquiries about this topic So I know it's something that's a lot of our state and federal agencies are keeping close tabs on I was able to get some reports from Canadian Wildlife Service and also the provincial I guess mnr really ministry of natural resources agencies in ontario and over in quebec to help get a better handle on maybe what's going on up there, but It's not great in the sense that you know We're seeing huge number of fires continuing to burn and listeners can go to there's some web pages online That you can go to and track the the fires that are burning across the entire expanse of the boreal forest in canada Some numbers I pulled today. It looks like we have there's an active almost 900 active fires right now across canada and 576 of those are considered to be almost out of control or very highly dangerous. So not great and many of the particular The a lot of these areas are averaging almost 2.2 million hectares which equates to 5.4 million acres In size, so that's almost the size of massachusetts when we start looking at the area that's being affected. So it was a little concerning But the good news is in the respect that a lot of our biologists are not too concerned If we we shift back to the quebec area Boreal forests here in over in the northeast part There's been a paper published recently or back in 2016 That has indicated that these particular fires in this boreal system are a natural occurrence although we've been seeing some increases with with changing climate and increasing temperatures and fluctuations and precipitation, but These fires are you know, they're principle factor for disturbance and they they really do a good job of setting back Forests and regenerating and creating heterogeneity Helping with the production of wetland systems by regenerating and allowing the vegetation to be set back so the paper that was produced showed that Basically, waterfall populations are pretty resilient. They've adapted to these type of systems. They're mobile and there's been no real strong correlation between fires And negative impacts on waterfowl production. So we're hopeful that those trends will continue And we'll see that a lot of the fire is burning right now in quebec Some of the biggest and most dangerous ones are along james bay. So that's northern parts of ontario bordering quebec Fortunately, there's not a highly populated Density of homes and cities in that area. So i'm not seeing significant property damage, but from a waterfowl perspective There's lots of femoral wetlands up there And lots of areas where they can they can move to and and hopefully continue their success with it with So we're not seeing the trends are hopeful that we will not see effects on our population this this year

18:19 Mike Brasher Yeah, that that's good and I appreciate you sharing that the other thing that I would add to maybe I guess it just amplifies what you were saying that these are natural processes and although they're scary and we You know from a human safety standpoint we think about the wildlife affected by it and and sure we can have those concerns But but these are natural occurrences. I was having a a conversation with fritz reed A few weeks ago and we were talking about the wildfires in western canada And we got to talking about I think I asked the question what would be considered a an old tree In the boreal forest because when we think about these as natural processes, that means they happen with some frequency, right? And he said that they it's a pretty short return rate Return frequency as to when you see like the time between subsequent fires in a given area And so to put a number on that I asked him what he would consider to be an old Tree in the boreal forest and he said, you know, maybe somewhere in the in the neighborhood of 40 years So that tells you that the return frequency on these fires is pretty short in the grand scheme of things. So Yeah, it's it is it can be scary when you throw out 900 fires and Several million hectares of area affected but I think it also is a useful reminder that this is this continues to be a natural process the extent to which it may accelerate or become Accentuated or more severe as a result of any other kind of activities is something that we'll continue to to study and then And and monitor I guess but but yeah for now It sounds like sounds like folks should try to take this in stride and recognize that pretty much every year There's some degree of wildfire occurring across the boreal forest This is one of those years where it seems to be a bit more extreme, right?

20:08 Sarah Fleming Yeah, it's just again It's just um for one reason or another and I think a lot of the people are asking how they get started and a lot Of this again natural occurrences a lot of them are through lightning strikes Although some of them are a result of human fires or something, but most of them are lightning strikes And a lot of the data supports that a lot of our boreal waterfowl, you know when they select critical nesting areas They're really looking for high quality brood rearing lakes and as opposed to nesting habitat as their particular area They want to hone in on and the good news is that a lot of these fires the regeneration Of these quality brood rearing habitats and the nesting cover, you know, the vegetation will respond in less than a year So even if a fire goes through and causes a significant amount of devastation these habitats will bounce back relatively quickly and And the good news is it'll be available to the birds next year

21:00 Mike Brasher Yeah, very good. It actually reminds me of some of the discussions that we hear and and About the the beneficial effects of fire and other landscapes whether we're talking about how it can be used to enhance management for wild turkeys Or other ground nesting birds So, yeah, it's I think there's always a useful education point to be made when these types of things when these types of things occur We'll have we will have i'll make the point here that in about a month we'll have estimates from the waterfowl breeding population and habitat survey that report is expected out mid to late august and so That report will contain The numbers from the areas that we've talked about here It will it will also include some some more descriptions of habitat conditions encountered during the survey So that information is something we'll look forward to anything else sarah that is worth talking about that

21:53 Sarah Fleming You wanted to mention here before we look to wrap up. No just uh looking forward to a productive fall i'm really excited about some of the northeast Increases in bag limits and some of our opportunities here. So mallard bag limit is going back up as well as the Canada goose So I know all our waterfowl hunters will be very pleased to hear that And with conditions looking the way they are we're expecting to have a good production and and hopefully a really good fall flight

22:19 Mike Brasher Well, hey, i'll pass along my my well wishes to you and your husband mike and I know it will not be long before you start dusting off those decoys and making sure the waiters don't have holes in them and and kind of mapping out where it is you're Going to be hunting this year. So we're not not it feels odd to say it's july and we're not too far away from it And we're still battling 95 degree temperatures, but it gets here in a hurry doesn't it?

22:43 Sarah Fleming It does and and I could tell you a funny story sometime about how important it is to check your waiters for holes

22:49 Mike Brasher I'm sure there are a lot of people that have that funny story Me included so sarah. Thank you so much for joining us here We will we'll look for opportunities to catch up with you again sometime between now and and Well sometime throughout the hunting season it's always great to catch up with you and you and mike and appreciate all the work that you and your staff are doing in in the northeastern us to help deliver the important conservation work of ducks unlimited and Thank all the supporters that you have there. And so so thanks a lot sarah. It's great. Great having you

23:20 Sarah Fleming Yeah, thank you. And again, i'll just kudos to the volunteers and members and our team over here We um couldn't do it without the support of everyone making this, you know successful program

23:31 Mike Brasher A very special thanks to our guest on today's episode sarah fleming a director of conservation programs for the northeastern us working out Of the great lakes atlantic region as always we thank our producer chris isaac Who does a terrific job with all of these episodes and getting them out to you and to you the listener We thank you for your support of the podcast and we thank you for your commitment to wetlands and waterfowl conservation