Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Chris Jennings: Everybody welcome back to the ducks on the podcast. I'm your host Chris Jennings joining me today is Will Brantley will how's it going man? Welcome to the podcast Jennings.

Will Brantley: It's good, man. I it's good talking to you

Chris Jennings: Now, Will is the hunting editor of Field and Stream. He's also the editor of RealtreeOutdoors.com. And Will also used to work for Ducks Unlimited Magazine. So, Will and I have known each other for quite some time. Also, we have also been on some adventures all across the, basically all across North America, several from Louisiana to Saskatchewan. We have hunted ducks together and hung out and had good times. I wanted to bring Will on here today, and really, you know, he wrote a piece for Ducks Only Magazine last year called Divers the Hard Way, and it's really, you know, it's a really in-tune diving duck hunting piece, but really, you know, it's kind of how he, basically the conversation that we're going to have is really how he hunts on Kentucky Lake, and then we're going to kind of probably drift into some random, uh, conversations that we always do. Um, but we'll, you know, the first thing that I like to do with everyone who comes on the show for the first time is really kind of introduce yourself to our audience. Just who you are, what you do, how you got into hunting. And I know we've talked offline before we started this thing. You kind of drifted out of duck hunting for a little while for a reason, but you know, maybe you're getting back in, but, um, I think it's just a really cool conversation to have. So, you know, really just kind of introduce yourself to our audience.

Will Brantley: All right, well, all that wind up there, Jennings, was like a long way of saying you and I are starting to get a little bit old. Exactly right. So, no, I live in Western Kentucky and have lived here all my life except for the two years that my wife, Michelle, and I lived down in Memphis whenever I did work for Ducks Unlimited. And that's been a minute ago now, but it was time that we looked back, and it was a really good time. I really enjoyed working for the organization, and we enjoyed living in Memphis and doing some of the things down there, but ultimately, Western Kentucky was home for us. So yeah, that's where I grew up, not a real big waterfowling I live kind of right on Kentucky right now, and the duck hunting here can be decent, but I grew up actually about an hour and a half northeast of here, around Dawson Springs, and it was pretty slim pickings around there, you know, on the duck and goose front. We did have, you know, there were some beaver slews and creeks and things, but I mean, I hunted everything there was to hunt really around there. When I was a kid, I was always really into it, but my dad was a big quail hunter. And that's kind of what I grew up doing, you know, on the shotgun sport front, you know, we quail hunt and we dove, you know, dove hunted and stuff too. But I think I was in high school when some buddies and I decided that we wanted to get into, you know, wanted to try to get into duck hunting. And, you know, we You know, some of the creeks had gotten out and we'd seen some ducks, you know, in farmer's fields and things. And that's kind of how I first started dabbling in it. And I remember, you know, my dad did have like a dozen old duck becoys and we'd load them up in like a horse feed sack and take them out there and hunt. You know, we killed a duck here or there, but I really got into it and started getting into the style of duck hunting that I enjoy now whenever I came to college at Murray State University. It was a good place to, you know, to be if you like to hunt and fish. I'd say it was right here next to Kentucky Lake and laying between the lakes. And so, you know, the deer hunting was good and the fishing was good and the turkey hunting was pretty good. But that's where I started, you know, I guess that's probably where I saw my first diving ducks. You know, back then there were a lot of buffalo heads and bluebills in particular that came in here and I got to know Some, you know, some local folks around here who were a little bit older than me, they were, you know, they were out of college, but, you know, still pretty young, you know, early 20s and started kind of palling around with them a little bit. And, you know, the first diver spreads we made were with old mallard decoys that we spray painted black and white. Man, we, we shot a lot of ducks off those things. We used to have like a little, uh, a little two man scamp, uh, uh, pond, you know, bass boat that we would take and, and pile that thing up with our, you know, with our makeshift diver decoys and put a trolling motor on the back of it. And, uh, But, you know, we'd hunt, you know, points that were, you know, stuff that was close to shore that we wouldn't have to get out on the open water. And like I say, we shot a lot of ducks back in those days. And we shot divers, but, you know, back in those days, I mean… you know, close to 20 years ago now. I mean, Kentucky Lake had a lot of, there was a lot of aquatic vegetation on the lake that's really hadn't been there in quite a few years, but they need to get a lot of puddle ducks there, especially early in the season. A lot of gadwalls, a lot of teal, and some mallards. You know, really just kind of a mixed bag of everything, a lot of wedging. Yeah, that's kind of, I guess, really like where I cut my teeth, you know, learning to, you know, learning to set decoys and call and, um, then, you know, as I got out of school and, you know, got my first job, I mean, one of the first things that, uh, you know, that I bought was a, was a boat and started learning a little bit about, you know, running that, that big water. And, uh, again, like I had older, you know, friends who were, you know, who were really mentors that, you know, that taught me a lot of that stuff and, you know, kind of taught me the, the rules of the road, so to speak, you know, out there on that big water. And we kind of graduated to hunting, you know, islands and things and running and freelancing. And I just fell in love with that style of, of hunting, you know, that, that, you know, open water, public land style of hunting, which of course is, you know, best in the, in the wintertime. And, uh, you know, and that's, that's kind of, kind of my duck hunting background. And then, um, you know, a few years after I graduated college, I started out, And I always wanted to be an outdoor writer and I majored in journalism whenever I went to Murray State, kind of with that plan and had some good opportunities when I was in school. I did an internship for two summers actually for Outdoor Life magazine and did a couple of outdoor columns, one for the Collegiate Newspaper, the Murray State News, and one for my hometown newspaper, the Dawson Springs Progress, and started freelancing a little bit here and there. And during that time, I actually met, I met Wade Bourne.

Chris Jennings: I was getting ready to mention, I was going to say, you know, you were really tied into Wade Bourne, pretty close.

Will Brantley: Yep, yep. And so I was. So Wade lived in Clarksville, Tennessee, which is about 45 minutes from where I live right now. I live right on the Tennessee-Kentucky state line. And I had grown up watching Wade on TV. I mean, Southern Outdoors, and of course he was host of Ducks Unlimited TV, and I read his articles, and I knew he was in my area. But I mean, to me, when I was a kid thinking of what I wanted to be when I grew up, Wade was the iconic guy. He was the outdoor rider, he was the video guy, he was the guy that just lived the life. And you could just tell, you know, like Wade was passionate about all of it. He loved to deer hunt, he loved to duck hunt, he loved to turkey hunt and fish. And he was just, you know, kind of the guy that I looked up to. And I remember I was sitting in a cubicle in New York City, I think I was 19 years old, and was at the outdoor life offices. And they were at Tupac Avenue in Manhattan at the time.

Chris Jennings: That's a long way from Murray.

Will Brantley: That is a long ways from Dawson Springs, Kentucky, I'll tell you. But anyway, I was sitting in a cubicle, probably fact-checking an article. Back then, they ran a lot of phone numbers in articles back then. Obviously, online articles now run a lot of run a lot of hyperlinks. But back then, I mean, there were phone numbers to companies and hunting guides and fishing guides and products that were mentioned. They didn't really tease websites so much as they ran the company's phone numbers. And one of my main jobs as an intern was to call and check those phone numbers, be sure they were accurate, like not going to an adult hotline or something. I sat there as an intern, you know, making these phone calls all the time, you know, and it was pretty mundane work, but I mean, you know, it's for outdoor life, you know. So anyway, learning the ropes of the magazine like that, sitting in this cubicle, and you know, there were guests and stuff coming in and out of the offices at times, and I remember hearing Wade Bourne's voice. Of course, Wade had a pretty loud, powerful voice, but I mean, he was just unmistakable. I mean, he was a radio guy. You knew when it was Wade talking. I mean, you could hear him from the other side of a building, you know what I mean? I remember hearing Wade's voice in the Outdoor Life's office, and I was like, And that is Wade Boren. And sure enough, he and Becky come around the corner. Well, Wade was really good friends and colleagues with Colin Moore, who was the executive editor of Outdoor Life at the time. And Colin was actually from Kentucky. And he's the one who kind of coordinated my internship with me. And so I met Wade there in that office and, you know, just, you know, I was, I was star stricken when I met him, but I mean, he was just such a nice guy and so generous and was really interested in the fact that I was from his general area and was up there in New York, you know, trying to learn the ropes and wanted to be an outdoor rider. And, you know, Wade really took me under his wing and was very, you know, went out of his way really to try to help me when I was young. you know, let me know of opportunities and things and, you know, would, I mean, in this business, a lot of times it's, you know, it's who you know. I mean, it's an outdoor business, it's pretty small and Wade would pass my name along and, you know, after a few years out of college, he passed my name along to Tom Fulgham, who was the editor of Ducks Unlimited Magazine at the time. They were looking to hire an associate editor and, yeah, Wade actually called me and asked if I would be interested in applying for that. And of course I was, and that's, uh, that's how I ended up at DU for a couple of years.

Chris Jennings: That's really funny. And I've, I've told you this story before, but our timelines are very similar. And it's, it's actually funny hearing you say that because I actually applied for that position, the associate editor position for Ducks Unloaded Magazine. And that would have been in like 2007. Is that right? Is that 2000, maybe 2008, right around in there. And I got the phone call from Tom Fulgham, except my phone call from Tom Fulgham was, you did not get the position. Because you did. So it's actually really funny hearing you say that because you got the position, but then he was like, hey, you know, Tom was great magazine editor, awesome. And he's like, hey, uh, You did not get the position, but I'm going to pass your name along to someone else in our communications department. And so I ended up getting hired as a communications specialist and PR side of things. Um, and you were the associate editor. So we kind of started off pretty close to the same time, but we were both applying for the same position. I find that just to be hilarious, how it kind of, how it all comes together. It's, it's pretty funny.

Will Brantley: That's great. And, you know, and those were, those were good time. And we had a lot of fun. I mean, you and I both pretty young guys and, uh, gosh, we, you know, the, the waterfowl hunter parties were, were a new thing back then. And I remember putting together the crawfish boil there and in Memphis and doing those parties and hanging out. And it was just a, you know, it was a. I always tell folks, DU was a great company to work for, a great brand to work for. And then, of course, Tom was an awesome magazine editor. He definitely wasn't an easy magazine editor. And he was pretty rigid, but man, he was 100% fair. And he was one of the guys, I can think of a few magazine editors you know, a couple of guys at Field and Stream and actually a writing professor that I had in college and Tom Fulton are, you know, folks that I look to who really helped me improve my writing. You know, I can really look at that and say, yeah, you know, they were, they were kind of tough to, you know, kind of tough to work under, you know, you sort of felt under the gun, but man, it was, it was, you know, it's kind of a tough love sort of thing. They were really good at what they did.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, no, Tom was definitely one of those people when you turn something in, an article, like, you were nervous. Yeah. You know, because there's a chance that he's going to tell you, like, this is awful. Like, oh, gosh, this is bad. You know, like, oh, God. So yeah, no, I totally get that. Um, totally here. Yeah. We, you and I have had some, some pretty good adventures as well. I mean, I think we did, uh, we did a Canada trip, man. Gosh, that would have been probably 2010. It was right after you left DU. Yep. And we did that Canada trip where I don't think we'll, I'll, I know, I doubt I'll ever, I doubt I'll ever be able to go to Canada again. experience that same thing where you and I were on a little pothole and we realized that there were just thousands of canvas backs coming in on us and you're you looked at me and you're like we're gonna shoot our canvas backs today and by gosh we did.

Will Brantley: It was awesome. It was a great hunt. I had, you know, it was one of the more enjoyable waterfowl hunts, you know, trips that I've been on. And I think a lot of what made that one so much fun was we were kind of left to our own devices, you know, because we went up there, really, I think, you know, I think the outfitter was kind of a, kind of a snow goose. He's a goose guy, yeah. In hunting fields. And man, it was just torrential rain to the point where we, you know, we, we, basically canned our plans for the whole week. I mean, we couldn't get a vehicle into a field, but there were all these little DU projects, you know, all these little wetlands around. And, you know, after about a day of sitting in the lodge, you know, drinking beer and talking, I think we kind of just got sick of it. We're like, hey, can we get some duck decoys and go hunt these potholes? And he's like, yeah, you know, you can try.

Chris Jennings: He had about 10 decoys.

Will Brantley: He had about 10 decoys. And, uh, man, we, uh, those potholes were really good and yeah, just full of canvas bags, canvas bags and gadwalls. I think those, that was, that was the flavor of the trip and it was just a lot of fun. We shot those ducks in the pouring down rain.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. No, that was a good one for sure. I'll never forget that. I think we, uh, I think we both shot our, our canvas backs and we're just like, this is unbelievable, like literally unbelievable. Like there's so many ducks. It was very, you know, kind of one of those, like you said, it's just one of those trips where you look back on it like, man, I don't, I don't know if I'll ever be able to do that again in the same capacity. You know, it's just very interesting. For sure. I got you on here to talk about the diving ducks thing and you kind of touched on it, but I think one thing you touched on there on Kentucky, Kentucky Lake is fantastic. If anyone's never been there, like you're missing out. But one thing about Kentucky Lake, that's big water. That's dangerous water. Is that something that, you know, when you kind of look back on you, you're getting your start, like you mentioned, you're doing like a two man bass boat, those little, those little plastic things. Like, do you kind of look back on that? Like, dang, like we were, we were pushing it there a little bit and then, then you moved into a bigger boat and you were probably much better off. But just when you started out, I mean, did you, you kind of look back on that? Like, dang, like we were, we were doing some pretty dangerous things. Cause that's dangerous hunting up there.

Will Brantley: Yeah, I think back on it pretty often, especially now that I'm a dad. As a matter of fact, I think the last time that I was on Kentucky Lake duck hunting with a buddy, we got ready to head back to shore and we looked at each other and both grabbed life jackets and put them on. When I was in my 20s, I would have never let my buddy see me do that. It's nothing but pure pig-headedness. Um, but I remember my buddy was like, yeah, you know, uh, I'm not too tough to die anymore. So, you know, I mean, seriously, I mean, it is a, it's like any big water. I mean, it's, um, it's extremely dangerous in the winter time. Uh, when the duck hunting is at its best, you basically have to think of a. you know, a 30-foot deep windswept river that's, you know, a mile wide, you know, and it's 20 degrees outside or colder. I mean, you basically have to think of that as, like, if you go in, it's like lava. You know, you have a, I mean, not quite like lava, but you have a very real chance of not surviving that. And, I mean, year after year after year, every year, I mean, tragic stories of duck hunters who drown on that lake. Same as, you know, like I say, any other big waterway. I mean, the Mississippi River or, you know, even, you know, out west, the Columbia River. I mean, there are a lot of, a lot of pretty tragic stories. And I mean, with duck hunting in particular, you end up with small boats, uh, with a lot of people and a lot of decoys and dogs and a lot of gear. They're, they're overloaded and you want to be out there on, the most inclement days. And, you know, Kentucky Lake in particular, you know, I mean, of course, it's an impoundment of the Tennessee River. And then, I mean, the same goes for Lake Barkley, which is right there next to it. It's an impoundment of the Cumberland River. But, you know, those lakes run almost due north and south. And, The days that you want to duck hunt with a good risk north wind, that 15 mile an hour north wind, it doesn't take much of a north or south wind to get those lakes really rough in a hurry because they just have a lot of room for those waves to build. because they are impoundments, you know, it's not like it's just the areas that you want to duck on. It's not like it's just straight river channel. You know, there are sandbars and sunken islands and sunken houses and just a lot of stuff that you can hit. And yeah, I mean, I think back about us, you know, wading around some of those points, you know, that were up to the tops of our chest waders and using a little bass boat, you know, the little plastic bass boats and things, you know, Trying to fish in diver decoys with long sticks and, uh, you know, and chasing, you know, wounded blue bills that are diving on us and trying to, you know, chase them down with a trail of mudder. And I, it's, it's a wonder how alive, uh, you know, after, after doing some of that, but you know, that is part of the, you know, I think that's part of the allure of, of diver hunting too, you know, is that. that little bit of adventure that goes with it. Um, you know, that, that big water stuff. And I mean, man, there's, um, you know, the layout hunting, my, my buddy Tim and I bought a layout boat. It was pretty, I might've still been at Ducks Unlimited. If I wasn't, it was, you know, it was right after I left, but we went in, we bought a used Mighty Layout Boys as a single man boat. And I mean, we had done a ton of, you know, ton of diver hunting, setting up on points and things, but I mean, you don't have to hunt divers for long to look out there in the open water and be like, man, if I could be out there, things would change, you know, because divers learn pretty quickly to avoid, you know, points and islands. And really what I found is anywhere where they're flying and they can see the bottom, you know, Kentucky Lake's really clear. And so you almost need to have any success on divers at all, you really need to be hunting water that is at minimum, you know, waist deep. And sometimes that's hard to find on, you know, hunting points and things. We got the layout boat and read articles and things and started rigging longline decoys, basically like catfish trout lines, and started just really through trial and error. Some of the biggest error was learning how to tow the layout boat out there behind our War Eagle duck boats without capsizing the thing. But man, like getting out there with a, you know, stepping off into that layout boat on the, you know, on the edge of a secondary Creek channel or whatever, and being a hundred yards from any shore, um, and anchored in 15 feet of water, uh, and having that wind blowing and your buddy leaves you, you know, in the big boat and you're out there, you know, Basically, you know, lift the drift, you know, I mean, you're anchored out, but you've got the decoys, you're in the decoy spread. And having, you know, a flight of canvas backs or blue bills or golden eyes or whatever it is, you know, they commit so completely, you know, to a layout spread. It's not the… You know, it's not the, the picking up and skirting the spread at 40 yards. I mean, it's, it's, you're raising up a shoot them at, you know, 10 feet. And I mean, really just looking at every detail on a Drake. I mean, it's just, uh, there's nothing like it in duck hunting as far as I'm concerned.

Chris Jennings: No. And you can, you can see their eyes, you know, that's, and, and that's the mighty layout boat. That's the same one that I borrowed. Right. Yes. Okay. I was gonna say, I drove up to Kentucky and borrowed this boat and actually hunted, and I know I told you about it, hunted the big oxbows off the Mississippi River in this thing. And it was fantastic. Like, but the funny part about it is, you know, the guys down here, they had no idea what we were doing. Like, they were confused as to, like, there were other hunters on the lake. I think there were even fishermen out there. But it's January, we're in Mississippi, you know, one of the big oxbows off of the Mississippi River, Right there.

Will Brantley: It's actually looking down our nose thinking you're obviously a bunch of Yankees.

Chris Jennings: That's exactly right. And we had, I had, uh, in the old, nobody would go with me. I had, you know, my boat, I had a 20 foot CR center console. You know, it's more than capable of big water. But I could not get any, but everyone's like, no, I'm not going to shoot divers off of Moon Lake is where I was in Mississippi. And, uh, I convinced there were two guys who were interning in conservation. Uh, one of them actually is now the senior policy director for Delta Waterfowl, uh, Cyrus Baird. I convinced them to go. I think they only went because they didn't have any other option. They're just like, yeah, we'll go. And we ended up going down there and we hammered bluebills, redheads. I think we shot a bunch of green wings too. But we would take turns, you know, basically one guy in the tender boat going back and forth. I mean, you'd get in that thing and you're done. Like you had your ducks in like 10 minutes. Like it was unbelievable. And for people who've never done layout boat style hunting, people always ask like, oh, you know, what's it like? And I'm like, I try to think about it, you know, like you had described, you know, you're out there, you're alone, you know, the water's flapping up against the side of the boat, you're half wet, wind, you know, you're in 20, 30 feet of water maybe, you know, and I always tell people, like, that style of hunting is, it's personal. And I don't know if that's a good way to describe it, Um, but I always feel like, like you said, they're landing five feet from you and you, you get to look at every detail of that duck. And so it's, it's very, it's almost like deer hunting and you're, you're a much bigger deer hunter than I am. I grew up deer hunting, but it's the same thing. Like you're by yourself, you know, it's just you, like when you go to shoot, there's nobody backing you up. There's no, you know, like if you shoot three times and miss, like there's no one there to help you out. You know, it's like, that's it. I just find it, it's super interesting that, that you got into that, especially on Kentucky Lake, but I just don't, do you, are there other people that are doing that or did you ever see anyone else doing that?

Will Brantley: You know, we never saw anybody else doing that. I think there've been people who dabbled in it. Uh, here and there, I mean, obviously it's a big lake, you know, you can't, you can't see what everybody else is doing, but I mean, for the most part, I mean, the, the hunting gun on Kentucky Lake is still your, you know, more your typical Southern style, you know, um, a lot of, a lot of boat blinds and things like that.

SPEAKER_01: And, and, you know, doing what we used to do, you know, pulling up on islands and things. And, um,

Will Brantley: You know, and it's, uh, it's so, you know, the layout hunting is so labor and equipment intensive. Um, you know, the, the new can wear off of it pretty quick on days when the ducks aren't flying. You know what I mean? Um, I mean, you can, you can have your days where you're sitting in a layout boat, you know, watching, you know, watching the open water, uh, and then you've got nobody to talk to and they'll call you. So, like, you know, the very worst days of duck hunting, minus all the camaraderie and fun that goes with it. You know, that's kind of how, you know, how it ends up. But, but yeah, I mean, it's, man, when it works, it's something. I mean, one of the things that always struck me about it, you know, the first time I was in it, I think, you know, I had some bluebills just come ripping in and I raise up and just, you know, just whiff on them at 10 yards. And, you know, and I'm like, man, you know, like you say, you're looking around to see if anybody's laughing at you, you know, because I mean, You realize how close those ducks were and how easy that shot should have been, but it's kind of like, it's a lot like shooting out of a, you know, out of a layout blind in the field. And that, uh, you know, it really forces you to focus on your mechanics, you know, shotgun mount, and, you know, you got to do a sit up before you shoot. and all of that. But one of the cool things about the layout boat is those ducks are so fully committed that most of the time you can, you can raise up and shoulder your gun and I mean, really take your time. And they never even, it's almost like they never even check up, you know, they don't flare. It's, it's like the, it's, it's like at that point they're expecting movement in the spread. I don't know, but, but it is something, you know, unique to that style of hunting that I've, that I've learned. I mean, they're just, You know you can really be pretty deliberate and you know as in most things duck shooting that you know that that's that's ultimately what you know what makes you successful but you can be even more so it seems like in a layout boat.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, no, I mean, it's, it's just, it's something that's so unique that for anyone who's not done it, I would recommend it. But you mentioned it can go bad pretty quick as far as if the ducks aren't working and you're out there, it's like you said, it's labor intensive, it's gear intensive. Um, you're, you're dedicating a lot of time and effort to it. And when it doesn't work out, it sucks. There's no early on, no other way to say it.

Will Brantley: Oh man, like, you know, I remember one morning I had a, uh, one of my editors at Field and Stream. I, you know, I was on staff at Field and Stream at the time. And, um, but, but working remotely from Kentucky still, and he came down to hunt with me and it should have been just a perfect morning. It was blistering cold. It was windy. I mean, everything should have been, and it was just one of those days we just couldn't get anything to work right. And man, I, um, Was in the tinder boat, and I don't remember what I was trying to do I think I was trying to like it's just a long line and ended up wrapping one of the long lines up in the proper board and I mean just sucking all these decoys up in there They're like hanging over the back of the boat. You know trying to unwrap these things You know and I can remember my editor saying man I It's good to see our hunting editor out there in his element. Being a pro, you know exactly what you're doing. That sort of stuff happens to everyone, but it happens a lot in layout hunting. And those are the type things too, obviously, in that open water like that, that's how a situation can turn dangerous.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. We'll kind of shift gears here a little bit and cause we're kind of pushing on time, but you know, for all the, you know, like you mentioned the dangers of it, what you're doing, we, I have these conversations a lot and you and I are both in the same boat as far as we both have kids who are right there in the mix, like trying to either get them involved in this or having them with us. I know you, your son Ants, hunts with you a lot, big deer hunter. And my daughter, Charlie, she likes to get out, get after it. Um, how does that having your kid with you, how does that kind of change your mindset on all of this? You know, like everything that you're doing, whether it's fishing, hunting, whatever, but you know, for me, it definitely changes the whole game. You know, I'm not going out there and, you know, really getting after it as much as I am trying to get her in a position to succeed. You know what I mean? Like that's kind of the, is that kind of how you approach this as well?

Will Brantley: You know, my wife, Michelle, and I, I mean, she's a huge hunter and outdoors person. And I mean, through all those formative years, you know, when we were living in Memphis and, you know, when I was really hitting the, you know, the layout hunting hard on Kentucky, I mean, she was out there with me a lot. And so, she has seen firsthand all of the things, you know, and really enjoys it. And so, when Anse was born, you know, and really as soon as he got old enough to walk, It was just really no question, you know, between us, we were going to continue living our life the way that we had always lived it and do the things that we always enjoyed. And, you know, maybe there'll come a time when Ants is older that he decides he doesn't want to hunt and fish and doesn't like it. But right now he's not going to have the option because he's just going to go. Um, and so we have just always taken him to do everything, you know, even when he was way too little to shoot, you know, we'd take him out turkey hunting and we had a little camo sleeping bag, you know, we'd stuff him in that sleeping bag and, you know, I'd set him between my knees and call up a turkey and shoot with him sitting between my knees, you know, and so we just always took him along to do everything. And I think because of that, uh, that's just become the expectation. Um, it's very, very rare that we go do really anything, uh, and, and leave him behind. Um, and I've taken him on some, you know, I mean, he's, he's traveled a bit to, to hunt big game in a lot of places and, and always goes with me and, uh, you know, and he's, he's shot a lot of deer and turkeys and stuff. But one of the things that. You know, pretty quickly when we realized how passionate he was about things, I mean, Michelle and I just sort of discussed it and said, you know, hey look, he's too little to go duck hunting on Kentucky Lake the way that we like to do it. I would probably push the issue a little bit more, but I mean, Michelle, having seen it and having, you know, seen headlines every year of hunters drowning and boats capsizing and things, she has been firm that he's just not going to do that. Not until he's older. And not until he's able to get the boat out of a bad situation or whatever, you know, needs to be done. And I respect that. And so, because of that, I haven't quit hunting, you know, divers, but I have, you know, I've kind of taken a pause on it because, you know, there's a lot of other things that we're really interested in in the wintertime. We run a trap line and, you know, do late season deer hunting and squirrel hunting, and there's a lot of other stuff that we can do. And so, yeah, for the last couple of years, I have kind of put a pause on my big water duck hunting, you know, just because, you know, I hate to leave my kid at home, honestly, and he's just not ready to to get out there and do that with me. It's too dangerous. But I did. We've got a deer lease in Texas. It's in central Texas and there's a lot of, kind of like you get in that area, there's a lot of stock tanks on this lease. And if folks listening have done much waterfowl hunting in Texas, those stock tanks can get a lot of ducks on them. We did do some jump shooting on him last year and shot a lot of birds and we set up and did a little decoy hunt one morning and decoyed in some gadwalls and he got to see that and he was really fascinated by it. He's fascinated by the birds and, you know, and I mean ants is, you know, he loves to shoot and all that, but I would say more than anything, like he's into the critters. Um, he, he wants to know about the wildlife and like, he is in awe of how impressive a Mallard Drake looks, you know, he's just like, man, like, why don't they have these curly feathers on their butts? And I'm like, I don't know, but it's cool, you know? So, I mean, he, um, you know, and so, I mean, he was really into it. And then, I mean, obviously he's then asking a lot of questions about, you know, the diving ducks that we have mounted on the wall at home, you know, where did, what is, you know, where did you kill that gold now? Where'd you kill that canvasback? Where'd you kill that scoter, you know? And so. And, you know, yeah, they'll, they'll come a time, uh, hopefully where I introduce him to that, but, you know, right now we're still just, uh, you know, just a little bit, a little bit young and a little bit small, but, uh, that'll, that'll change soon enough.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. I was going to say, you're not too far. I mean, he's going to be ready to go here probably in three or four years for something like that. But yeah, you know, what's, what's interesting is, is we have these same conversations, my wife and I, and. Uh, you know, like when I'm taking Charlie to duck camp or whatever, it's not really. The conversations are not always, you know, you think like you, you mentioned, you know, answers too young to go out in the layout boat and, you know, he couldn't drive the tender boat by himself, you know, but also kind of the conversations that we have, which I think is really good. Um, for kids is like, what if something happens to you? And like, so you kind of broach these conversations with kids and nine, 10 years old. I mean, they're, they're young, but like, Hey, if something happens to me, here's what you do, you know? So you have those conversations. And I think that all of that just kind of pays dividends as they get older, you know, they're a little more prepared, I guess. I don't know, like maybe than some other kids, but, you know, we have those conversations of it's just me and her at duck camp and we're in a pit and something were to happen. Like, here's, here's what you have to do. I mean, do you have those conversations with ants and, you know, and your wife probably before you guys go on these trips? Cause I know you, like you mentioned, you travel around, you're going to Texas to deer hunt, you're going. you know, all over the place. I'm assuming that you're probably having these same conversations.

Will Brantley: We absolutely do. You know, um, I, this is a, you know, another topic, but like, I think, um, you know, smartphones and social media are causing the collapse of society, uh, especially in the hands of kids. But, um, Ant's had, you know, he has, uh, a cell phone of his own. Now it is internet disabled. You know, he can't get on social media. He can't even get on the internet with it. He can take pictures. And he can make phone calls and he knows how to do that. He has emergency contacts and we got those conversations all the time, you know, when we're out hunting, I'll just stop him and say, Hey, which way is the truck? Um, you know, and kind of put him on the spot and make him tell me, you know, and ask him, did you bring a flashlight? Did you bring your pocket knife? You know, did you bring something besides your, you know, your, uh, your Nintendo? And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's a responsibility as a parent, if you're going to teach them to do all this fun stuff outside, you do also have to, you know, there is some responsibility, I think, to make them prepared for the worst that you hope never happens. But, you know, sometimes in the things that we enjoy, the odds are a little higher of something happening out there than they are, you know, at a trip to the, you know, to Walmart or whatever, you know, so, and especially if you start talking about big water duck hunting and boats and bad weather and things, you know, I mean, I've hunted I've hunted all over the world and hunted bears, and I don't think there's anything that I've ever done anywhere that I think is more consistently dangerous than big water duck hunting. And I think most of your big water duck hunters would probably agree. And so, if I'm going to get to the point where I'm going to take my kid out there, I want him to be big enough to respond to a situation if it were to come up.

Chris Jennings: Absolutely. Before I get you out of here and, you know, you mentioned something that really jumped out to me right there where you mentioned you, you have traveled and hunted all over the world. And, and I always like to ask people, um, you know, I had Eddie Nickens on here and it's kind of the same question, you know. What you guys do, you do get the opportunity to travel around and hunt a lot of really, really cool places. And I asked Eddie the same question, but what would be, if you were to explain to someone, what would be the best waterfowl hunt that you'd ever been on?

Will Brantley: One of the best ones I've ever been on was actually an early season teal hunt here on Kentucky Lake with some of my really close buddies from, you know, from college. We had been out, and again, this was back when the grass was thick, we had been out scouting these teal day after day after day. And I mean, they were just, you know, the conditions were perfect. And we got out there on opening morning, we got out there like three o'clock in the morning to hold this spot. had other hunters trying to come in and it was the whole public land thing we're shining our lights and letting them know that we were there and Man, it got daylight, and we actually did have two other guys come in that we knew, and we welcomed them in. They came and hunted with us. And so, we ended up a party of six, and it got daylight, and everybody shot their four-teal in under 30 minutes. It was insane, and I mean, they were just landing in the decoys as we were picking up birds, you know, it was just one of those. And I mean, obviously, the hunting was fantastic, but just thinking about the company and, you know, that, you know, Like I say, it was my buddies and we were young and it was public land, you know, and right here close. And I don't know, that's a tough one to top. I still think about that hunt.

Chris Jennings: No, that's a good one. And I think that's really interesting and something that I talk about all the time is that most of duck hunting is the people you're with. If that makes sense, like even when it sucks, as long as the people that you're with, you know, fun, good times, you, even a bad hunt can, can be, you know, a great time. So, and I think that kind of plays into it, you know, like you said, you've, you've hunted all over the world, yet your most memorable favorite hunt is probably with people who are close to you and, and at an area where, you know, you're. you're familiar with and, you know, everything worked out. So, that's interesting. That's a good answer. Not that I was judging your answer on that, but, uh… And if you were, you were doing a good job hiding it.

Will Brantley: Yeah.

Chris Jennings: Well, Will, we're going to get you out of here. We're up against it on time. This has been fantastic. And I think, you know, maybe as we go into the fall a little further, um, hopefully we can get you over to Arkansas, come to my place, you and Ants come hunt. Um, that'd be fantastic. We'll, uh, especially if you're traveling to Texas, you're going to be driving right past us. So, uh, we'll definitely have to do that and we'll get you back on the podcast and we'll see, uh, how your season shaped up from deer season to duck season to squirrels, everything you got going on. We'll, uh, we'll have to check in with you for sure.

Will Brantley: Yeah, man, I appreciate it. Had fun.

Chris Jennings: All right, man. Take care. I'd like to thank my guest, Will Brantley, the hunting editor of Field & Stream for joining us today, talking a little bit of diving ducks on Kentucky Lake, hunting with kids, and just overall great conversation. I'd like to thank Chris Isaac for putting the show together and getting it out to you. And I'd like to thank you, the listener, for joining us on DU Podcast and supporting wetlands conservation.