Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Chris Jennings: Everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Jennings. Joining me today, once again, is John Pullman, our Central Flyway Migration Editor for ducks.org. John, what's going on, man?
John Pullman: Hey, happy to be with you, Chris. Thanks for having me on.

Chris Jennings: You know, we are right here in, you know, some states, mid-latitude states, a lot of them are in splits, you know, off and on, but some of these, those northern central plains states, or Great Plains States, I should say. You guys sound like you still have ducks up there. And I wanted to bring you on. We can just kind of chit chat about how your season's been and what you're hearing throughout that area, throughout the whole Central Flyway, really. Yeah, absolutely, Chris. Yeah. So we'll go ahead and kick it off and, uh, you know, we'll start out with South Dakota. Cause that's right. Your backyard. How's your season been? What's the duck number look like around there?

John Pullman: Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, it's been a good, a good year in South Dakota. Um, you know, I think we had some solid production, you know, that kind of boosted early season opportunities. And then, um, you know, we kind of pinned, we kind of highlighted that, that storm system in October. It's kind of a game changer, uh, you know, bringing in some birds from Canada, North Dakota, and I know South Dakota sure benefited from that. And since then, we've had some decent numbers, really good numbers, I should say, in areas of the state where they have good habitat conditions. And that's going to be a central theme of what we talk about today is the places that have good water, that have the habitat conditions that we need to attract and hold birds. I think you're seeing those places having a pretty good year so far. big picture here in South Dakota for me personally has been, you know, I've had a great year mainly because it's been my son, Miles, his first year hunting. And so, you know, I may not have have number-wise have had the kind of year that maybe that I would I've had in the past, but just the birds that we have gotten have just been really special because they've been some of his first ones. So for me personally, it's been a great year. But big picture, kind of going back to that October Halloween storm, we kind of painted that from North to South as being a system that was going to really shake things up for the Northern Prairies, where we're talking Prairie Canada, North Dakota, South Dakota. Mike Slansky, North Dakota Game Fishing, the Game Fish Department there, he said it was going to be a game changer, that it was going to be closing the door. I think actually the words that he used And I think it did in some ways. But I think what we've realized hindsight, looking back, is that it changed things up, but I don't think it did to the extent that we thought it was going to. We saw a pretty good increase of birds around that period of time, and then temperatures dropped. We had some snow in areas, but in the backside of it, our temps warmed up, right? And so, throughout much November, we were in the 40s, 50s. It would freeze at night.

Chris Jennings: You're probably wearing flip-flops, weren't you?

John Pullman: You know what? It's sweatshirt and short season. That's what we call it here. And so those birds actually, they hung out here. And then actually, I think what we saw was they actually kind of did a little bit of reverse migration back north. And so up through November, it's November 30th now that we're recording this. And even in the past couple of days, I've gotten solid, credible reports from Alberta and Saskatchewan of decent numbers of waterfall that are still there. And we're talking geese, right, and mallards primarily. And so we are still holding on to some pretty good bird numbers up here. I know that big water's starting to lock up in Prairie, Canada, but some of the river systems are still open. And then here in South Dakota and North Dakota as well, some of our bigger waters are still open and then that whole Missouri River corridor is wide open, right? It is going to take another big change in our weather to lock those things up and send these final… There's a pretty good number of mallards here to send themselves. Not to be the Grinch here in the Christmas season, but I got off the phone with a good friend at the National Weather Service this morning in Sioux Falls and there's nothing in the short term. I mean, 10, 14 days out, there's no big weather system coming. So, for those that are in a split right now, mid-latitude or down Arkansas or wherever, that are hoping to see something happen up here, it may not happen here in the next 10 days, but keep your fingers crossed by the end of the year. Eventually, at some point, the door is really going to officially close and you're going to see, I think, a pretty good push of birds south. But until then, I think North Dakota and South Dakota are going to be holding on to some birds for a while.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, you know, we kind of got the same sentiment from Dr. Scott Stevens when he's been on, where we had him on that day that right around Halloween where that big front hit. He was kind of alluding to the fact that he still had three or four additional days following that. But I think that, like you said, it warmed up in the Dakotas. And now he's a little further north, but like in the Dakotas, it warmed back up. You know, the people who were up there hunting at that time, During that warm up right after that storm, I heard several reports of pretty good concentrations of mallards and geese returning to North Dakota. So it's right now, I mean, we're doing what we do as waterfowl hunters is we sit around in December and wait for weather. I mean, I guess I'm hearing a lot of questions of where are the mallards, where we're not seeing them. Jay Anglin over our Great Lakes Migration Editor, he's in Northern Indiana and he's like, we don't have them. He's like, I talked to the dudes up in Northern Michigan. He's like, they're not seeing, you know, just people are just not seeing those mallards. And it actually kind of makes sense the way you're kind of painting this picture of that warmup. I mean, especially in areas that far North, nobody's hunting them. There's no, there's no pressure.

John Pullman: No, our season, our seasons go out, you know, North Dakota is out soon. Most of Eastern South Dakota goes out on Tuesday here in just a few days. And then we have Missouri River Corridor stays open, hunting-wise, for the southeast part of South Dakota until close to the end of December. And then we have another season, the state's open into January out by Pier Central South Dakota. But hunting pressure is going to drop off the map in about five days. And so, you look at a snow cover, I mean, there's two things that are going to drive migration out of the Dakotas, right? And you talked to me and people in Nebraska and Kansas, they know that in order to see birds show up in those states and other areas too, You got to have ice and you got to have snow. And you look at a snow cover map of South Dakota, North Dakota right now, and it is brown, right? There is no snow here. And we just We're getting single digit lows, teens lows at night, which is enough to lock up small water, right? But some of these bigger lakes or the Missouri River in particular, it takes significant amount of cold weather day after day after day for that stuff to lock up. With each cold day, those water temperatures are dropping, right? And so you're going to get closer and closer to seeing things ice over. But until we get a really severe cold snap, it's just not going to happen. I saw literally yesterday, I saw in my hometown here, I saw a guy outside working, construction guy, and he had blue jeans and a t-shirt. It was 50, 57 degrees yesterday. And so that's just, we want to think of migration as black and white, right? Here comes the weather event and here come the birds, but there's so much gray area. And Mother Nature, she's the one that holds the cards to all of it. And so when it's time, it's time, it'll happen. Like I say, right now, we just don't have the factors up here, and we do. Mallards, there's good numbers of mallards here, and until that changes, they're gonna be here. I know it's frustrating for hunters that are further south, but patience, and you just have to wait it out, and hope you can take advantage. We don't have any gray ducks here. I mean, there's a handful of green and teal and some pennies that hang out with these mallards, but by and large, those birds are down south and hopefully you know hunters are able to take advantage of those species for now and and greenheads maybe will show up as a Christmas present who knows.

Chris Jennings: I know most of the guys that I talked to who were hunting Arkansas, Southeast Missouri, West Tennessee, there's still, you know, there's plenty of ducks around as far as, like you mentioned, you got gadwalls and pintails and greenwings. I know a lot of guys have been capitalizing on that greenwing opportunity, which is awesome. I'll take it all day long. But I think most of the hunters who have been around the block for a while understand that it's a waiting game now. You're going to have to wait for the mallards. So if that's what you're chasing. Now there were some pretty solid reports. Some places in Arkansas did fairly well on mallards. Some of the public ground. I'm not going to name any names and throw anybody's secret hole under the bus here, but some guys shot some ducks, some mallards, and did pretty well, but by and large, you know, they were non-existent. You know, you kind of mentioned, you know, kind of the grumblings of hunters, but, and I just wanted to point out, you know, we posted the Nebraska migration alert that you had sent, we posted that yesterday, and this morning I looked on, you know, some of our social media sites and saw there were several people agreed with the alert and several people were like, no, we don't, you know, cause I think it kind of alluded to, you know, the hunting's heating up a little bit as the temperatures drop, they've got some little bit cold temps that, you know, it's been warm there too. Um, and so the hunting kind of heated up a little bit and people are like, oh, I'm not seeing anything. And then another guy's like, yeah, ours got really good yesterday. And that's one thing to understand with those migration alerts. It's not, it's hard to judge every single person's duck blind. You know, like they're not right in front of your blinds. So, you're giving like a more of a 40,000 foot overview here. Absolutely. But, you know, what all did you kind of take away from that Nebraska Alert as you were making phone calls to waterfowl managers?

John Pullman: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, back to that theme of whether habitat conditions are good, I think people have picked up birds. And so habitat conditions in Western Nebraska are far superior to what they are in Eastern and South Central Nebraska. Rainwater basin is extremely dry. The only water that was available in that area, to my knowledge, was stuff that was pumped. Any of the managed ground that had access to water systems like that, they had habitat needed to attract and hold birds. But Eastern Nebraska, I know, is tough. And in particular, the region that I think I maybe didn't highlight enough is that the Missouri River, where it borders South Dakota, and then continuing on south and east along the eastern edge of Nebraska, they have not picked up the birds. I made some phone calls last night to a couple of the guys And they just have not seen the birds arrive there. There's some people think they've flown over. My personal thought, and going back to what we've already talked about, is that the birds just haven't come down yet. And so those mallards and Canada geese that typically will show up on that stretch of Missouri River, the Running Water Springfield, down toward Omaha, along eastern Nebraska, those birds just haven't shown up yet. And that's my opinion based on what I've seen and what I've heard. And so, yeah, I think it's in Nebraska and Kansas too and other places, it's an example of haves and have-nots. If you've got the water, you probably have seen some birds arrive. If you don't, or if you're in one of those spots that really, really depend on the Dakotas clearing out, you're probably having a slow season so far. These migration reports are awesome if you look at them from a big picture. Obviously, there's a lot of gray area. Going back to that as well, there's a lot of gray area to it and there are a lot of areas that you just can't cover at all. But yeah, looking at the big picture in Nebraska, I think western areas, yeah, they've seen an uptick in bird numbers. Smaller waters are freezing over. The lakes and the reservoirs and the rivers are starting to pick up. But further east, where the conditions are not as good, or they just haven't seen the birds yet. And so again, they need ice and snow here in the Dakotas for things to pick up.

Chris Jennings: Now, what about Colorado? I mean, Eastern Colorado typically has some pretty good hunting. Have you talked to anybody over there yet? I know we typically do some alerts over there, so you probably have some contacts.

John Pullman: Yeah. One of my main contacts, Van Stoltz, he's a long-time hunter in the Front Range. Things have been… I spoke with him here a week or so ago. Again, extremely… They saw a weather system come in, kind of that Halloween area, brought in some new birds. It was kind of what they needed. It froze up, they had a lot of water on the landscape, and so it froze up some of the shallow water and concentrated the birds in ways that they were more accessible. But in the week since, right, it's the same thing. Weather is, the temperatures have really, really warmed up. Birds have spread back out. And so, I think they too are, they are waiting on things to really, to change again. They need another weather system to kind of heat things back up in Colorado. Just, it's a waiting game, right? It's one of those things where you have to wait for Mother Nature to play the right cards.

Chris Jennings: Now, I talked to a couple people in Oklahoma, especially for their opener, and then a couple weeks after. Some of those guys did pretty well. Have you heard anything out of Oklahoma or is that just right now it's kind of a dark area?

John Pullman: For me personally, that's a dark area. I mean, the only thing that I can say is just from looking at some of the state wildlife management area pages, knowing that, again, places that have water have done well. If you do any internet scouting on Instagram or anything like that, it sure looks like there's some hunters down there that have been having some success. in some managed areas. But again, I think that they would benefit from some weather up here.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, and as we move into Texas, you know, we had Kevin Cry, the Texas Waterfowl Program coordinator on, was it last week, maybe the week before, and he kind of painted a pretty good picture for North Texas. Uh, which is a little surprising, you know, the last couple of years, they haven't had water this year. They do have pretty good water. I think they, they got dry recently, but, um, they have pretty good water there. So guys seem to be doing pretty well, but before we drift too far into Texas, and I don't want to drift too far into the Mississippi flyway on you here, but I'm, I know you stay in touch with, uh, Tony Vandermore there in Northern Missouri. What are you hearing out of there? Because I think a lot of people are assuming. especially after Missouri's most recent survey, there's quite a few ducks and quite a few mallards stacked up in Missouri.

John Pullman: Yeah. I think Missouri is one of those states that they benefit from an October weather system probably more than anybody. It seems like when we get When we get weather here in the Dakotas in October, and we did, we saw a decent little push like the second week of October, and then of course that big storm. And whenever we get that kind of little pulse of birds into South Dakota and into North Dakota and birds leaving out of here, it seems like that North Central Missouri, they are on the receiving end of that. And so I know that they've got good, there are some good Mallard numbers down there. But I know they also have a bunch of other different species right now. Green-winged teal have been a kind of a lifesaver for a lot of folks this year, just by the way. You mentioned it a little bit, but they have really been a lifesaver, been a fun duck for people this year. But I think they're in Missouri right now, again, warmer temperatures. They had some snow, but we're just coming off a full moon. And if we see a little bit of a warmup down there, they're going to see those birds shift to that nighttime feeding pattern. I think that's kind of what's the concern right now down there. But again, they would benefit from some weather up north. I know I'm sounding like a broken record, but anything to switch things up. I think that weather system they had last week with some snow and cold, that was enough to shake things up and kind of shake the birds up and get them out of some of their difficult behavior patterns. And so anything now, between now and the end of the season, again, to just to kind of, whether it's rain or wind or a big cold snap, whatever it is, just to kind of, again, shake things up for them and get them moving during the daylight.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. And, you know, I think that's the overall theme, like you mentioned. Not to be the broken record here, but I think it's, it's really a waiting game for some of these mid latitude, uh, central flyway hunters right now. And, you know, as they get further, further South in the, in all flyways, I mean, it's, it's definitely going to be a waiting game for the next couple of weeks until we see, you know, a significant system basically hit you right in your backyard. Um, I hate, I hate to say that, you know, but you know, I think that's what most duck hunters are rooting for right now is for South Dakota to, to get kind of buried under a little bit of snow.

John Pullman: You know what, I would gladly accept that fate on behalf of fellow Duck Hunters, especially after Tuesday when our season closes.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, that's right. Once it closes, they got to go. You got to run them out.

John Pullman: They got to go. They aren't doing me any good anymore.

Chris Jennings: We cannot have construction workers in South Dakota wearing t-shirts. I know that.

John Pullman: That's bad news for everybody. It is. That is not a good sign. It's not a good sign. Nope.

Chris Jennings: Cool, John, I appreciate you providing this update. Some pretty valuable information. It gives a real glimpse of, you know, where the migration is in the Central Flyway and throughout some other regions. I mean, the Prairie region impacts so many other areas that I think hunters have to understand that when those zooks get out, it's going to benefit everyone, so. I appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time and we'll get you back on here pretty soon.

John Pullman: Absolutely. Thanks, Chris.

Chris Jennings: I'd like to thank my guest, John Pullman, the Central Flyway Migration Editor for Ducks.org for coming on the show and providing a little bit of an update on where the migration stands in his neck of the woods and throughout the Central Flyway. I'd like to thank Chris Isaac for putting the show together and getting it out to you. And I'd like to thank you, the listener, for joining us on the DU Podcast and supporting wetlands conservation.