Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Chris Jennings: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Ducks Limit Podcast. I'm your host, Chris Jennings. Joining me in studio today is Matt Harrison. Matt, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience, tell them what you do here for DU, and just kind of give people an idea of even your background a little bit. You know, what we're going to be talking about today is very much relatable to Matt. It is really just kind of convincing people or kind of teaching people how to improve their social media content. You know, that content creation seems to be almost everything right now. Um, and you're really good at it. You've got a big following on social media. And so go ahead and introduce yourself to our audience and tell them what you do.

Matt Harrison: Yeah. So like Chris said, my name is Matt Harrison. I've been here with Ducks Unlimited about a year and a half now. And prior to, uh, coming on with Ducks Unlimited, I, you know, I did a lot of social media content, but my roles have switched a little bit here at Ducks Unlimited. I help on the PR side of things on the communications team and I couldn't love it more, but I still do a little bit of content. Like I said, prior to coming on with Ducks Unlimited, uh, that's pretty much all I focused on. You know, I started my own business, uh, shot for a bunch of different brands. Absolutely love, love, love creating content. And it's one of those deals I can talk about for hours. I'm super excited about this podcast and, you know, it's something I still, you know, do a little bit of here with Ducks Unlimited as well, creating some content for our social media. So, I'm super excited. I'm ready to dive into some of these questions you have and maybe we can help some new photographers out there out.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. And, you know, this kind of conversation came from one of our freelance writers. Uh, John Pullman, who's been on the podcast quite a bit, he pitched an idea of, you know, you know, how to improve your social content. And so he did that article about, I don't know, middle of duck season or mid fall, mid winter, I should probably say. Um, and we posted it online and you guys can go there and check that out on ducks.org. And that's in the, the title of the article is basically how to improve your terrible content. You know, because… Love the title. And we got a little creative with that one. But, you know, the reality is in this day and age, everyone wants to be a content creator. The actual reality is there's a bunch of really, really bad content out there. And there's some really basic things. that some of our listeners may be able to do if that's something that they're trying to get into. Just kind of following some of the, you know, guidelines that even John put out here and then maybe some recommendations from yourself as you do this. But, you know, just kind of starting out. When you… started out, you know, creating this social content. What was the one thing that you were like, all right, I want to do this and this and this. Like, you really wanted to focus on one aspect of it.

Matt Harrison: No doubt. And so, what I really tried to focus on, first and foremost, was my gear. Like, I knew to get good content, I had to have the gear. This is something, you know, like you just said, everybody's a content creator now. I feel like that word's so overused. You know, and a lot of people come to me all the time and they're like, hey, what camera do I get? What do I, you know, what do I use platform-wise to edit? And my thing is, if this is something that you truly want to take serious, you know, if this is something you really want to pursue, or if this is something you really want to try to do on the side and make it a business, You have to have the gear. You have to have the good gear. And I would say first and foremost, you have to have a high quality picture taken and film as well, if you want to get into that side of it. Camera, you know, there's so many options out there. Some people shoot Sony. I personally shoot Canon. That's what I've shot for years and I absolutely love, you know, and I just finally had to tell myself, you know, I said, this is my tool of trade and I'm going to spend money on the best. So I went out. I started out with a Canon 5D Mark IV, that was one of the top of the cameras at the time that I got into the game. It shot 4K video, shot amazing photos, then I upgraded to the Canon R5, which is still a pretty decent camera right now. Most, most importantly, you have to have the gear. You have to. You can't half, you know, do it. You just can't really just say, hey, I'm just going to go this, get this really cheap camera and produce this really high content. Now, if it's something just hobby-wise, you know, there's a lot of cheaper cameras. You got your lower end like Canon T7, T7i that still take pretty good photos if that's what you want to get into. But if you're trying to make this a business or you're trying to, you know, really provide content for certain brands, whatever it might be, I would highly suggest, hey, starting out, bases first, let's get the gear that we need. Because without the gear, you can't do it. I mean, I've hardly ever seen a really good photographer do it with a cell phone or a really cheap camera. You know, most of these guys, I literally was talking to a photographer this morning, he was telling me his rig was $30,000. And now that, this guy's full-time, the best of the best. You know, I'm not saying you got to go spend $30,000, but what I'm saying is, is these guys, you know, if, if you want to be up there and provide really good content, you've got to get gear that captures that style.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. And as you're saying that, I'm just sitting here laughing at myself, kind of dating myself. The first time I was on DUTV, uh, now granted, this was like 15 years ago, probably more than that. Uh, first time that I joined the DUTV crew on a shoot, those guys still had the big shoulder mounted, Huge thing and now everybody's shooting on these much much smaller.

Matt Harrison: Oh, yeah mirrorless.

Chris Jennings: Yeah Yeah, everything has has changed in that and that's probably why more people are getting into it now You know one thing that in this article that kind of talks about is kind of choosing your shots. When you're hunting or, you know, and I'm sure, and what I always did when I was shooting for, you know, any photography and trying to hunt, if I did both of them at the same time, I did both of them pretty poorly. So, you know, trying to, you know, trying to put the gun down and pick up the camera and really capture these moments, but in that process, like, what are you looking for? Like,

Matt Harrison: So, exactly what you said. I have figured out you really can't do both. I literally make up in my mind before I go hunting, I'm like, today I'm either shooting or today I'm shooting with the camera. Like, it's so tough to shoot ducks and shoot the camera, so… You know, I pretty much make up in my mind early, hey, I'm going to go and I'm going to shoot photos. You know, one thing I'm looking for is I want to capture certain images, certain scenarios that not everybody else is shooting. But I'm also not getting away from my bases, right? I'm not trying to create content that's just the most ridiculous content you've ever seen, but I'm also trying to find certain angles, certain shots. I may say, hey, look, tell the shooters, hey, I'm going to walk over 75 yards to your left, nowhere near out in front of them, but just say, hey, I'm going to be over here. I'm gonna let y'all know, I may be over there for 30 minutes taking some shots, and they may know I'm over there, I may get some shots of the dog retrieving at a certain angle, may get some of them shooting ducks at a certain angle. So, you know, the night—this is about to probably sound crazy, but the night before, I'm laying in bed thinking about the shots I want. Like, I truly already create the shot in my brain. Now, yeah, you've got stuff that's gonna change that, there may be stuff in the way, there still may be leaves on the trees, so all these things play a factor in it. But, you know, I try to create content that not everybody else is shooting, but also at the same time, don't get away from, you know, stuff that people enjoy, right? Like, don't try to just do too much where your content is just people like, what's this guy trying to do here? You know what I mean? Like, what's going on here? So, stay with your bases, but also try to, you know, create new angles, new shots, new even edits with colors. And I'm not saying go overboard with that either, but man, you can just create so much with just your visual side of things before the shot even takes place. So that's what I'm trying to do beforehand. You know, I may say, today I'm really going to focus on dogs. I really want to get a retrieved shot of a dog coming back, and I may try to take 300 pictures of that, and 10 may turn out really good, right? Or it may be, hey, today I'm going to try to get a shot of two guys up against two trees, and their barrels are out, you know, and get a really good shot of that. I, you know, it really just depends on the scenario I'm going into. So, you know, that's kind of what I'm looking for when it comes to a shot. Awesome.

Chris Jennings: So, you know, you talk about planning it out, you know, really kind of having a strategy for doing that. Almost like, I mean, we do this, I mean, I deal with a lot of creators or photographers as well, you know, on the magazine and the website side, and they'll have shot lists. So, basically, you're creating a shot list in your head and having a plan going into it. Going into it. Are there times when you still pull your phone out and

Matt Harrison: shoot something quick, or when you're shooting, you're… That happens all the time, like, you'll be in the middle of something, and like, it may be the sun is just setting perfect, or the sun's rising perfect, or, you know, somebody's walking back from a certain area where there's like some trees kind of coming over, like, just a really, where I'm, I just freak out, I'm like, grab my camera, hurry, hurry, hold on, you know, just run. And I may just grab my camera and just like, I'm talking about just throw my settings as close as I think, you know, if I can turn a picture out with editing still, you know, and just snapping as quick as possible. You always have those shots, you know, where it just clicks. You're like, that's the shot right there. And you just, as wide open as you can, get it as fast as you can. And I mean, sometimes you go with 30 different scenarios in mind and you may not get any of those and it may turn out to be the best day just because it, The stars aligned, you know, and there was a lot of scenarios come up that worked out really good in your favor. So, yeah, there's for sure times that you just, I gotta get this and snap it.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. And, you know, unlike when we assign a photographer to a magazine piece, you know, they're focused on that, you know, topic. How important, when you're shooting, you know, predominantly for social media, how important is that candid shot? You know, maybe it's not as, I guess what I'm trying to say is maybe it's not as planned for social, and like, are some of those candid moments, even more important for social, because you're capturing that.

Matt Harrison: And that's why I love dog photography. If you told me right now, Matt, you have got to go, and you can only choose one thing to photograph the rest of your life, I'm gonna look at you and say, give me a dog. Because every shot is candid. Every shot is candid. And there's a dog, don't know when to look. Now, yeah, you might have some people trying to get the dog's attention or something, but they're still, you know, their ears are gonna be perked up, they're gonna be looking like, what are they doing over there, you know? It's it's so vital to get candid shots because you know all your photographers have shot stage photos Like you know, it's it's common common knowledge, you know, if you're a photographer you've had some type of hey, you know tell friend Hey, look go lean up against that tree and look this way like people can be like Like, no, I've never done that. I've been around the best in the world, and they do that. Like, you know what I mean? And now, you have to, you have to. But, also a lot of those really good photographers know how to get that candid shot. You know what I mean? So, a candid, you know, shot of somebody going to get a duck, or the raw emotions of somebody showing excitement, or the raw emotions of a first time you shot a duck, or that kind of stuff people eat. Because there's no faking an emotion, you know what I mean? There's no faking a true excitement. I can normally look at a photo and be like, they caught that perfect, you know what I mean? There's a young seven-year-old boy that just shot his first mount in Arkansas, and he's going nuts, and somebody captured him, you know, like that. That just, I mean, the picture quality don't even have to be great. You can tell, you can tell. And I think it's vital when it comes to content creation. as much as you possibly can to get that candid shot. That's why I love dog photography, and I'm not real big on the wildlife, live wildlife side of photography, but that's one reason, you know, I love also looking at a lot of your, you know, well-known photographers that shoot those live, because it's a candid shot. A duck flying is candid. You know, nobody's going to tell that duck, hey, go fly over this way real quick where I can get this shot. So candid shots always are your best bet. You know, just the true, raw emotion, true, just it happens and you capture the shot.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. And we have several people listed in this article that, uh, you know, we've used as a reference because they, you know, one, they're professionals too. They have awesome, you know, social content that, you know, a lot of people are looking at, but who are the people that you kind of, when you started out and even now today, that would say, you'd say like, oh man, like. Not that you tried to imitate them.

Matt Harrison: But, you know, I kind of tried to take my own spin off of what they're doing. 100%. You know, there's so many good ones out there. But the first couple that come to my mind who really, I would say, took me under their wing and not only showed me the photography side of things, but also helped me with the photography business, that also introduced me to people, that also showed me the ropes that a 20-year-old needed to know. And they did not have to do this. They did it out of the goodness of their heart, you know. But the first couple that come to my mind are Ed Wall and Kerry Wicks. And Kerry's not a big-time waterfowl photographer. If you know him, he loves to chase turkeys. But he still, you know, he still does some waterfowl stuff. Those two guys I owe the world to because they could have kicked a 20-year-old to the curb and said, look, we've spent our time 20 years focusing on our craft. You know, we figured it out. We know what works. We know how to turn this into a business. But instead, they were like, You know, I see potential in him. I'm going to bring him in. I'm going to show him what it takes and also how to do it. And you know, those guys are truly at the top of their game when it comes to photography. You know, Ed Walls stuffs all over social media from Mossy Oak to Ducks Unlimited. I mean, he even films videos for us as well. Kerry Wicks on the Turkey side of things, his stuff's everywhere. It was on the Tennessee Lifetime, not Lifetime, but the Sportsman's Card this year. I mean, at the NWTF it was displayed, his work, you know. And there's so many other good photographers out there. Wade Shoemaker's a really good photographer, good friend of mine. You know, great, great photographer that does a lot of good stuff and just even a better guy than he is a photographer. So, you know, and there's so many that I didn't mention, you know, that there's some that I haven't even met, had the opportunity to meet. But those guys, you know, are truly ones that took time with me to show me, hey, Matt, look, this is what it takes. And like I said, I owe those guys the world because they didn't have to do that. But before, you know, I got on with Ducks Unlimited, I actually helped Ed Wahl some with Wahl Media. I did a lot of videoing for him and a lot of content creation there. You know, those guys are at the top of their game. I was actually on the phone this morning with Ed and, you know, just bouncing ideas around with him for content creation. And, you know, it's one of those deals that to become even a better content creator is to talk with those guys. you know and seek those guys and this goes out to everybody young or even older that's getting into this game like if you're listening to this and you want to know more reach out to those guys now some of them are extremely busy you know they may not get back to your direct message right right away but most of these guys if you'll reach out and ask them questions like They started at one point, too. Like, I can't tell you how many messages I get on Instagram of, hey, what camera do I use? Hey, what software do you use to edit your photos? Whatever it might be. And I love taking time to talk to them about it, because somebody did the same with me. You know what I mean? So don't be afraid to reach out. I still reach out to those guys and ask them questions about certain scenarios, because there's things that they know that I don't, and there's things that I know that they don't. good content creators can balance those ideas and to create better content for brands. So, yeah, those guys are top tier and I owe a lot to them.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, no, and that's, you know, I think that mentor, you know, stage is, I think for a lot of younger people, it's hard for them to think that some of these professionals, whether it be, you know, photography or videography or anything, they have a hard time reaching out because they're like, oh, this dude's not going to want to mess with me. But like you said, you know, it's always good to go ahead and make that, you know, contact. And especially if you're trying to learn what they do and how they do it. One thing that's interesting, you know, just from your perspective, which is why I kind of wanted, you know, to have you on here and talk to you about it. In your role with Ducks Unlimited, you're doing more of a, almost a traditional public relationship. And so, but now you're hosting. You went from being, you know, behind the camera to now you're hosting these creators. I mean, just go down the list, you know, you're the main host for, you know, when we have the bar stool haunts. You're doing, we did 247. You did Kendall Gray this year. You know, when you're hosting some of these bigger content creators, do you go into that with a different perspective? Or, you know, are you kind of running it through your mind like, hey, this is what I want them to shoot? Or are you just kind of like, hey, let's set the table for them and see what they do?

Matt Harrison: I leave the ball in their court. because I know how stressful it can be going into these camps for them, okay? You know, my goal, first and foremost, is to tell them Ducks Unlimited's mission and what we do and why we do it. But I also, when we bring them in, I tell them, hey, you know, the floor is yours. Whatever kind of content you want to create around wetlands conservation, or talking about Ducks Unlimited, or talking about our mission, or whatever it is, I'm here to help you get it. If you need me to grab a camera, let me grab a camera. I'll help you film it. Whatever it might be, I let them choose, hey, Look, I trust you enough, you know, those who you just named are some of the best of the best as well at that content creation, you know. So I trust those people enough to know, you know, they're going to come in, they already have a game plan, right? I tell them coming into it, look, you know, whatever I can do to help achieve what you need to achieve content wise, to also tell our message at Ducks Unlimited, Let's do it. You know what I mean? I kind of leave that in their court, you know, because everybody's different. Literally, everybody's different. For example, I'll give you an example. Barstool, you know, they have somebody with Sidney Wells that now Jack Orlandi, great guy, he comes in and films with Sidney, films whatever it might have. Then you go to the other side, which may be Kendall Gray, right? It was just me and Kendall Gray on a duck hunt. Just me and him. Correct. Like I mean we were swapping a phone back and forth, you know, Kendall shoots a lot of his stuff on an iPhone which is Fascinating to me right like so cool that he gets all these views and he does it with a with a cell phone, right? and so Really and truly I as you know a host of these camps I go beforehand. I'll look at their content what they create and how they create it, how they go about it. And, you know, I provide all what they need up front. Say, you know, hey, here's the guns, here's the Benelli's, here's the Winchester ammo, here's blah, blah, blah, here's the Drake Waterfowl clothing, whatever it might be. And then I let them kind of run the game how they want to run it. Because I don't want, as a host, to say, hey, you need to do this, this, this, and this. And then that takes away from them because they already have it made up in their mind what they want to achieve. So, if I come in, it's not gonna be their best content if I try to make them create content what I wanna see, right? So, everybody's different. Like I said, you know, Barstool, it's an awesome just running gun. You know, we capture it, we get it, we do some interviews, whether it be with you, Mr. Chris, or Dr. Mike Brasher, whoever it might be. Then, you know, Kendall, it was, hey, we were passing the iPhone back and forth to each other. He would video me talking about the guns we're shooting. And then I would video him talking about, you know, he just shot his first goose. So it's a very different vibe. And going into that, I try to fill out what I think I need to do as a host to help them get what they need to get, not what I want to get, right? It's not about me. I'm trying to get exactly what they're going to leave their happy with saying, man, first off, it is cool that all the work that Ducks Unlimited does to help better benefit waterfowl. But also, look, we got some awesome content to go and show our millions and millions and millions of followers at the cool work Ducks Unlimited is doing, right? So I always try to find out what it is that they need first and then help them achieve getting that.

Chris Jennings: How important is it, especially for social content, how important is it to switch and know when to switch from photography to video? You know, like are you shooting 75% more photos? Mainly because it's probably easier, but you know, if you, you mentioned you like retrievers, well you want to get that retrieve and you want to get that dog jumping off the dog stand into the timber and all that, but how How much weight are you putting on video rather than photos now?

Matt Harrison: That's a great question and that's a tough one because the game over the past I would say year has changed tremendously. So everybody knows now reels on Instagram are the way to go, right? And TikTok's been around for longer than a year, but video on TikTok does super well, right? So, used to, you know, maybe five, ten years ago, everybody pretty much focused on nothing but photos, right? You want to be put in a magazine, you want to be put in a newspaper, you want to be put on a, uh, you know, anything, a stamp, whatever it might be. Whatever photo you want out there, you are spending all your time trying to capture that one perfect photo. Well, now, You know, with the algorithms, with the platforms, they're really pushing hard. I mean, like the short reels, the 15 to 20, 30 second reels that you can just post, post, post. So, now it's kind of swapped. You know, used to, I didn't even really care about videos that much. I would, you know, if I saw something like, hey, you know, if I shot that in 120, that'd be a really cool slow-mo video. I may be like, I'm going to switch it over. Well, now, if I'm going out to get content and I really want something to post to my social media that I know that I'm going to gain followers from and really promote, I'm going to probably shoot it in video because I know that a reel is going to do really good, right? And I literally, crazy you said that, I actually have a friend that I was on Instagram last night looking and he said, you know, my post gets 150 likes with a photo and my reel gets 5,000 likes. And he was like, talking about that. And I was like, yeah, because that's what these platforms are really pushing is these reels now. So, now that I go out, if I went out today and me and you were going duck hunting today, I would say, you know, hey, if I want a good shot of a retriever, I may, you know, two retrieves, nothing but photos. Then the rest of the time, I'm going to shoot videos because I want to cut this down to 15 seconds, post a reel to Instagram, post a reel to TikTok, post a video to Facebook because, I mean, I can knock out all those platforms with the reel, right? But you're not, Yeah, you can post a photo to TikTok, but it's like a little slideshow and it don't ever really do as good. So, I know that I can get more bang for my buck with a video. Now, everybody's different, you know. Now, there's some people that may say, I'm going out there to shoot nothing but photos because that's my bread and butter and I want to get a canvas made of this and sell it for 300 bucks. That's everybody's cup of tea is different, right? So, it really just depends, but yeah, I for sure when I go out, I've got a plan in place already. I'm going to try to get, hey, let's try to get three reels today. Three footage reels of X, Y, and Z. Or hey, let's go today and get 15 really good photos. So, that's a great question. You know, it just really depends on the setting and what I'm trying to achieve. But yeah, there's for sure a point where I'm like, okay, it's time to switch to video.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. Now, the majority of your content is, has been duck hunting content. When do you, so like in the off season, how much harder is it to continue to push? You know, you're, you're making a lot of decisions here based on algorithms and, you know, what works on Instagram, what works on TikTok, which is interesting, which is what everyone in the whole world's doing right now. But You know, in June, where are you at?

Matt Harrison: Exactly. That's so crazy, like, and the listeners, y'all out there, we did not plan this for, but this is crazy you're asking me this question because I just had this conversation with a person, right, about social media, okay? So, here's what this person mentioned to me and here's also, I've also experienced this, right? So, in my opinion, you have three to four months with social media that is social media is just off the charts, and it's normally your winter months, right? So October, November, December. Now you're speaking for you. Correct, but also with other brands too, because I'm going to tell you why. So like, or November, December, January, February, in those winterish months when it gets cold, right? So, I think a lot of that is, is one reason is, one, it's extremely cold, right? It's extremely cold. So, nobody's, and this person literally mentioned this to me, it's, it, nobody's really outside, right? There's not really people just spending spring days outside enjoying it with kids, with their dogs, fishing, blah, blah, blah. A lot of people inside are on their own, they're on their phones, right? They're scrolling. They're on that. It's also hunting season. Everybody's talking about ducks. Everybody's wanting to see, Who killed what where? What's so-and-so doing? What's this group doing? Where did they hunt this week? So, everybody's on it, right? Everybody's on it for many different reasons because of that. So, you know, I think your winterish months, I think those are typically hands down going to be your absolute best for content. Now, once you get into the summer months, how do you go about it? My personal page is a little bit different, especially now that, you know, I have a different role with Ducks Unlimited. I don't really have to push my content as much. If you, if some people have followed me, you know, they've probably seen a little decline in content production, but that's solely because, you know, you grow up, you get a little older, your roles change, stuff like that. So I haven't had to have this much emphasis on me posting as much content on my personal page, which I still do some. But, you know, I try to keep more springtime. You know, summertime, if I'm fishing, I'll try to create some fishing content. You know, I'll mix in still, for sure, some waterfowl content. You know, I may post a picture of me hunting when it's a super hot day and say, man, really missing those, you know, missing those colder, colder mornings, you know, and I try to keep a good balance. Of course, I'm not going to post near as much in the spring and summer just because It's one, it's not my busy time, and two, I don't think as many people quite are on social media as they are during those winter months. So, if you follow a bunch of your bigger brands, you know, whoever it might be, you'll see a decline in posting when it comes because, you know, like you just mentioned, it just, during those months, it's tough to keep the engagement with your following. High, because nobody's just extremely pumped up about duck season in June. You know what I mean? They're focusing more on what it may be family time, fishing, sporting events, whatever it might be. So, all your really good content creators continue to post, but they won't post quite as much, you know, but they'll continue at it. They're not letting a week go by without two or three posts, you know, they're posting. They're still staying at it because they want you engaged. And then when it, hey, September comes around, you're starting to see a vamp up in content. Then October, oh my goodness, they're back almost in regular form. Then by duck season, it's wide open.

Chris Jennings: So- You're definitely giving away the fact that you're from Mississippi by not even referencing duck season until like November.

Matt Harrison: You're right, you're right. Just letting you know. Yeah, that's for the southern part of the state.

Chris Jennings: So, further up north we go- On the podcast here, we think continentally.

Matt Harrison: My bad, that's on me. But no, for sure. And that changes, correct? You know, your demographic changes due to where you're from, where your majority of your following's from. You know, if you're from way up north in the northern part of the United States or even into Canada, you know, you'll probably get even a bigger jump on that, of course, because your season's starting way before ours, you know. I think staying constant at posting, whatever it might be. And I think also, don't be afraid to mix in some of your personal life. I'm not saying you gotta post all your personal stuff, but people enjoy to see a life side of you. And that's one thing I had to tell myself. People enjoy seeing what I do outside of hunting. You know what I mean? Whether it be coaching. I get to coach softball, so a lot of people like to see that. Or some people may like to see, oh, you know, he's out fishing today and caught a 10-pound bass, whatever it might be. So don't be afraid also to show that side of your content creation, too, and show them, hey, he's not just somebody that just, all he does is focuses on this. And show them your personality, I would say, as well.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. Now, here's another good question for you and something that may help, you know, some of our listeners who are, you know, looking at maybe becoming a full-time content creator. One of the unique things that I see is, you know, to be a photographer for a magazine or even just for a brand in general, historically, you had to have that point of contact. You know, these photographers would have had to be either contacted by, let's say, you know, the photo editor of Ducks Unlimited Magazine. That rolodex was pretty small. You know, that, and I'd love to have this conversation. We should have brought John Hoffman in, Ducks Unlimited Magazine photo editor. But now, It has changed to where, you know, people are getting their images out there and then they're potentially being seen by a brand or an editor of some kind. What would you tell to maybe some younger, you know, content creators? How would you recommend them approach a brand? You know, is it just like a DM or, you know, like… That's another good one. Some people may not like the DM approach, you know.

Matt Harrison: That's such a good one because that's probably outside of the number one question being what camera to use. The second one is like, literally, how do I even get started, right? Like, how do I get started? How do I, how do these brands see my content? I'm gonna tell you, these brands are seeing your content. They're gonna see them. So, for example, here's how I got started is, I didn't know anybody in the industry before I met Ed Wall, Kerry Wicks, nobody, right? Like, I didn't know anybody with Uxon Limited. I didn't know anybody with Drake Waterfowl. I didn't know anybody with Maceo. I was literally a homeschool kid to my junior year who didn't even have a degree in photography or business or anything like that, that just wanted to start, right? Like, I mean, literally, it's bare minimum. Had a camera that my mom had, a Canon, I can't even remember what it was. It took okay pictures, but I was like, I wanna start, right? So all I did is I started capturing content, and I started posting it, okay? And when I posted, I would tag these brands. And hey, before I had any contract or deal with these brands, I tagged everybody. You know what I mean? Like, I'm sure that some of these brands were like, why'd he tag our opponent, blah, blah, blah, you know? But I was tagging… You didn't realize that they didn't like each other. Yeah, exactly. They were competitors. But I was the type of kid that, you know, when you clicked a picture to see who he tagged, you couldn't see the picture that was that many tags. So, you know, I was tagging everybody. And, you know, these brands are looking for good content to post, right? There's a lot of these brands that don't have a content team. So, their content is user-generated or content team generated, so they're looking for that up-and-coming really good young photographer or old photographer or middle-aged, whatever it is. If you take good pictures, they don't care, right? So, I tell people all the time is, you know, post it to your page, tag, it'll be seen that way. You know, now some… Don't tag 700 brands. Don't tag, yeah, don't go the route I went, okay? Tag some brands, you know, like, if you take a picture of somebody wearing a, you know, Mossy Oak, Drake Waterfowl hoodie. Tag Mossy Oak and take Drake. Don't tag everybody else, you know what I mean? Tag those brands. You know, they may not see that one post, but, you know, eventually, somebody's gonna come across that, and if it's a good shot, people are gonna share it, right? It may not be Mossy Oak or Drake that sees it, or Benelli that sees it, but somebody may catch it and send it to those guys, right? And they sit and they're like, wow, this person's really good. So making sure you're tagging those brands that way, right? And I'll also say this, go to shows and events, right? So for example, our expo, our Ducks Unlimited expo, All these brands are there, right? Go to your other big time conventions that take place. These brands are there. Their top people are there. Go and shake their hand and say, look, I have a portfolio. Would you mind if I emailed you this? Shake their hand. Thank them so much. Don't sit there for three hours and try to scroll through your phone and say, hey, look at this photo. Hey, don't do that. Those guys and girls get approached like that all the time. They do not have time for that. But if you will say, hey, look, my name's Jodo. Here is my email. I would love to shoot you my portfolio. If you can take a look through it, get back with me, I would truly appreciate it. Shake their hand, take their card, and go. Shoot them an email thanking them for meeting them. Send them your content. And it will be seen. There are ways. If you put in the time and effort, you're gonna be found. It's like with sports. It's like with anything. If you're good enough, they're gonna find you, right?

Chris Jennings: It's not like… I think one thing that people forget is that how closely some of these brands are actually looking for that stuff.

Matt Harrison: Oh, it's literally, they're looking hard. They're going through their tags. I was literally talking with somebody recently, and they were like, a big, major brand with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of followers, and they said, we're going through responding to comments, thanking people, saying great shot, nice photo, nice shirt, nice this. They're looking at it. It's gonna be saying, like I said, don't expect in a week a message back, right? Like, don't expect in a week they're gonna message you. And like you mentioned, the DM route, Odds are, if you shoot a DM, they're not gonna respond to it on a standpoint of trying to get your content. Now, if you have an issue with a leak or a tire, they may get back with you with that. But these brands like this, they're probably not just checking their DM every day, looking at the photos that are being shared, right? They don't have time for that. They're running… they're running these pages. So, anyway, long story short is post the content, tag them in it, go to the events that you know they're gonna be at to put a face with a name, let them meet you, let them show your personality to them, and I'm telling you, if your stuff is good, they're gonna find you. Yeah.

Chris Jennings: How important for you when you were first starting out was responding to comments on your content?

Matt Harrison: I think it was vital, you know what I mean? Like, because a lot of people want to know how you got a certain shot. Some people may want to know, you know, the gear you used, the editing software, and any of that, you know, right? Any of that. Or where you were hunting, and I know people get tricky with that and don't want to respond to that. Rightfully so. But, you know, just telling people that, hey, you know, this is somebody that's personal. This is somebody that will give me advice. Because like I mentioned just a minute ago, somebody showed me. So, I want to show others. I can't tell you how many times that somebody's message was like, hey, will you please hop on a call with me and walk me through setting up my ISO. or showing me what a shutter speed actually does, or showing me shadows, contrast, whatever it might be, and I'm super happy to say, man, yeah, come on, let's hop on a phone call, or hey, let's meet up and I'll show you. So, responding to those comments, showing people that you're approachable, that you want them to learn, and growing the sport, you know, and I know that that can get tricky, and people are like, well, I don't want them stealing my business, blah, blah, blah. If you're good enough, you're gonna get business. You know what I mean? So, Yeah. Responding to those comments, showing people that you care and that you're approachable is, is really, really, really key in growing your brand as well.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. And we've kind of run through this, you know, fairly quick, but you know, the importance of doing some of this for some people is a lot. you know, a lot higher than maybe some other hunters. And this is an interesting question, and it may not even pertain to you, but I'm just curious, have you gotten any like negative feedback on like, man, why are you, you know, you mentioned it a little bit briefly, you know, people giving away hunting spots or something like that. You know, is that something that you've had historically?

Matt Harrison: You're always gonna have some type of negative feedback. in any type of business, brand, any type of business you're trying to grow. If you have a following that has a big number to it, you're gonna have negative feedback. It don't matter. If you give each person in this world a million dollars, somebody's gonna say something, right?

Chris Jennings: Mainly because for the last year, every post you've made, I've posted on there, you suck. No, I'm just kidding.

Matt Harrison: You're going to have somebody do that. Exactly. So you're going to always have, you know, man, and some people are sincere. Some people just want to be a negative. Nancy, you know, for example, a sincere one may be, hey man, I want to appreciate you posting photos where people can tell where you're at. Right. you know, well, I've hunted here with my dad since I was four years old, and nobody knows about it, and I don't appreciate you coming and posting in front of a picture in front of the boat ramp, right? And I've never done that, as in a standpoint of just trying to tell, you know, everybody's taking a picture at some point that you can probably say, oh, well, that's at so-and-so's place, you know? So, I never try, and I feel like any, you know, respectable photographer will always know the things to stay away from. You know what I mean? Like, of course, I'm not gonna sit here, and like I just mentioned, I'm not gonna go and just say, we had this really good hunt, I'm gonna take a picture of the WMA this is, and post it with my post. You know what I mean?

Chris Jennings: So you're not screenshotting your Onyx account while you're doing that?

Matt Harrison: I'm not dropping pins in the comments saying, hey, you know. But, and you'll always have, you know, like, you'll have other negative comments. Maybe, you know, why are you out and about taking photos during the hunt, messing up other people's hunts, or why are you trying to get a picture of a boat shot, running a boat, scaring off ducks, or whatever it might be, right? You're always gonna have a negative side of anything when it comes to a following. And I always, first and foremost, I don't care if somebody's as mean as they possibly can be. If they commented, come on, and said, your photos are terrible, you're the worst photographer, you're the worst thing that's ever hunted to, or happened to the hunting brand. First and foremost, I literally tell myself, I'm gonna be as kind as I possibly can be back. And not a smart aleck kind, like, oh, you're so cute. Like, you know, I'm not being a smart aleck back. But I'll respond with, hey, Joe, I appreciate your feedback. Thank you. Man, I never intended for this to be blah, blah, blah. Here is why I do it, and here's how I go about doing it. I never intended. And try to show them, hey, I in no way, shape, or form wanted you to have a negative concept on why I do this. So you'll always have that. But I always say, take the approaches in explaining why. And if your heart's really in it for the right reasons, you'll be able to explain it in a split second of why you did it. And yeah, you'll make a mistake. You may accidentally give up a coordinates on accident where you took a picture of an eagle flying, and you can tell that that huge eagle's nest is at this National Wildlife Refuge. And everybody's like, man, and look at all the ducks and whatever it might be. That's just a crazy scenario. But just say like, man, you know, I didn't, my intentions were never to expose this place or my intentions were never to, you know, mess up your hunt or anything like that, you know. And just replying back with a nice comment and just letting them know, hey, this is why I did it. And a lot of times, nine times out of ten, those people will respond back with, well, thank you for your comment back and I understand. You know what I mean? Like, if you go back and I'm like, man, you're the worst thing that's ever happened to hunting and you're the reason. Oh, goodness. Now that's when the screenshots go and they're tagging you saying, this is supposed to be one of the best photographers. You know, that's when all mess breaks loose. And then the negative, you know, just-

Chris Jennings: People need to remember the brands see that too.

Matt Harrison: Oh when you know I'll be completely honest is I'll never forget that one of the major brands I ever first started out with they literally were like One thing that stuck out to for you to us was you know, there was nothing on your page. That was controversial There was nothing that we would have to say. Hey, look if you get on with us, you can't do this There was nothing that I was just You know, there wasn't language just being everywhere thrown around. There wasn't just, you know, anything crazy that was taking place that no brand would… Be a brand. Here's how I would answer that to the best of my ability. If you owned a brand, who would you want working for you? Right? Be that person. Be that person you would want representing your brand. And if you do that, and if you can answer that question, this is who I would want, great. Then you would hire yourself, right? But don't be somebody that, hey, this brand, I would have to change this. I gotta go take a couple of these pictures down. Here's some stuff I'm doing, why I'm duck hunting that I shouldn't be doing. You know, this is gonna be something that people don't agree with. Don't, don't do that. Just stay away from it. You can create content all day every day by doing what's right, doing nothing controversial. You know what I mean? And like we said, you're gonna have negative, but just respond back and just try to keep it to the best of your ability as user-friendly as you possibly can, because you want the kids coming to your page. You want the older people coming to your page. So, just keep it in mind. Like you said, brands are going to see it, good and bad. So, make sure that there's no bad out there as much as there is good.

Chris Jennings: No, I think that's a, that's a good point. Uh, last thing before we get you out of here, you know, you've kind of given maybe a step-by-step approach here as we've gone through this podcast of, you know, giving recommendations for what people do. Everything from gear to approaching brands. Is there anything else you left off that list that you would tell someone if someone, you know, hits you up in the DMs, like, Hey Matt, I'm trying to, you know, really get into this. Could Give me that top three. You know, what are the top three things that you're telling that person?

Matt Harrison: Okay, so, first and foremost, be yourself. Okay? When this brand approaches you, don't think, oh my goodness, this brand just approached me, now I've got to just restructure everything, I got to become this photographer. They approached you for a reason. Right? They see something in you based off what you're already providing. A brand is not reaching out to you saying, I don't like this person's content. Let's bring them on anyway. Right? So stick to your roots. Sticks to what makes you good. Stick to what makes you good. Whether it be dogs, live waterfowl, ducks, geese, turkeys, whatever. The whole spectrum. Whatever you're good at. Don't, and I'm not saying don't have goals and plans to become a better photographer and this category, that category. But don't… I had to tell myself this, like, you know, I started trying to think, oh, should I do this? Should I post this? And I said, stop. If I enjoy it, and I'm good at it, I'm gonna post it, right? Like, that's why these brands wanted me, is because I was posting stuff I enjoyed, and if you enjoy it, you're gonna be more passionate about it, and you're gonna create better content, right? So, I tell people, look, whatever you're good at, stay true to it. Don't try to change who you are. Now, like I said, if one of these big names comes at you and said, hey, I think you can do this, by all means take that. But what I'm saying is, don't try to make something into something it's not, right? Stick to your roots. And second, I would for sure say relationships are key, key, key. Everybody knows everybody inside this industry. You know this as well as I do, Mr. Kriestad. It doesn't matter from a shoelace company to a ball cap company in the outdoor industry, that some way, shape, or form, they're gonna be connected, know somebody that knows somebody. So your name, your reputation, the way you treat people, the way you handle business, I promise you is gonna follow you around to the day you die. So it is vital to be honest, hardworking. If you say something, mean it. If you mean it, say it, right? So like, don't try to promise over promise, don't try to under promise, don't try to Be anything you're not. Tell them, if you can't provide it, be 100% up front with them, call them, tell the brand, hey look, I told you this, I'm so sorry, I did everything I could in my ability to do it, and I wasn't able. But don't say, oh, I'm trying, you know, I'm still, and don't provide. Be an honest, hardworking, show up on time, create good, clean content, and bust your tail, right? So I would say those two main things is stand true to who you are, you know, relationships driven, and just lastly, third point is just enjoy it. Like, enjoy what you do. If you're not enjoying it, the content's not going to be what it needs to be. Right, so like if you're forcing yourself to get up and go, and I'm not saying that there's gonna be days that you don't have to make yourself get out of bed and travel three hours to get content, I'm not saying that, that you're like, ah, I gotta get up and do that. But in, find what you enjoy, if it's turkeys, if it's ducks, if it's geese, dogs, whatever. Find what you enjoy, what you're passionate about, fight for it, like go after it, attack it. And I promise you, if you take those three things into account, these brands will notice. If your content's good, right? If your content is usable, I promise, if I could look at every person listening to this and say, I promise you right now that if you do those three things and your content's good, your content does have to be good, they're going to find you. And you'll be successful. That's what I would say.

Chris Jennings: Awesome. Well, man, this has been great. I think it's been, you know, helpful for anyone who's trying to get into that content creation world. You know, everybody does it, like we mentioned, you know, some people not so good, you know, which was really the whole spinoff for that article, you know, that, you know, there are ways to improve that content and maybe some people just want to post content. There's no real plan, you know, to work with brands or work with, you know, anyone. So, You know, it's always interesting. That's the kind of the greatest thing about it is everyone's kind of doing their own thing for their own reasons, which is awesome. But no, I appreciate you just kind of providing some insight and really, you know, providing your background and how you got into it and really appreciate, you know, hopefully we'll have some questions come in from the pod. People can email dupodcasts at ducks.org if they've got any questions for Matt Harrison here on the content creation side of things. So, People want to email that, that's dupodcasts.ducks.org. Matt, again, thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Chris. I'd like to thank Matt Harrison for coming on the show today and really kind of explaining really what he does and how and why he got into the kind of the content creation aspect of the hunting industry. I'd like to thank Chris Isaac for putting the show together and getting it out to you. And I'd like to thank you, the listener, for joining us on DU Podcast and supporting wetlands conservation.