Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Chris Jennings: Joining us once again today is John Pollmann, Ducks Unlimited magazine and ducks.org contributor. John, welcome back to the show. Thanks, Chris. Great to be with you. I brought John on today and we were kind of discussing offline some different topics that we can talk about. And with John living right in the Prairie Pothole region, I thought it would be a good idea to bring John on to talk about freelancing in the Prairie Pothole region. That's North Dakota, South Dakota, Eastern Montana, even all the way up into Canada. There's a lot of people that go up there and they try and freelance hunt. And it became really popular, I don't know, John, 15, 12, 15 years ago, you know, it really took off. There's a lot of guys who go up there and do it. So John, you know, let's get started with this. Like, let's just start out with early season. You know, as soon as that season opens in September, you know, what should guys be looking for? What should hunters be looking for when they get up there to the prairies?

John Pollmman: Sure. Well, first of all, I just wanted to say, you know, that freelancing is at the heart of my experience as a waterfall hunter. I've been blessed to be able to really freelance for, you know, for the last 30 years since I started duck hunting. And, you know, the beauty of being a freelance hunter is that it's it's all on you. You're in charge of making the decisions and scouting and finding the birds and so on. And then the challenge of freelancing is that you are in charge of finding those birds and whatever. And so early season on the PPR, when I think about a season of freelancing on the prairie, two things come to mind first, and that's one is the weather and how that weather during a particular season and impact bird behavior. And the second is the progression of crop harvest and where we're at. So when I think about September, obviously the weather can do different things, but typically you're talking about some mild conditions. You're talking about birds that are taking advantage of some really recently harvested food resources, be that small grains, silage, corn that's been chopped for food, for cattle, for forage. Those are the two big ones that come to mind. And of course, as September gives way to October, October, that opens up new doors for feed. So a September freelance hunt, that's a good place to start is to find those areas where you've got freshly harvested crops, those small grains that are on the ground, corn that's been chopped, stuff like that. You're going to be looking at targeting birds in the field, whether it's Canada geese, wood ducks, mallards that are going to be taking advantage of those things. Like I said, the weather can change in a heartbeat. You can have some freezing temps and even snow in September. But by and large, it's going to be pretty moderate. And so water resources are going to be important during that time of the year as well. Ducks and geese typically at that point of the year aren't using real huge bodies of water. Most of the water bodies are going to remain open throughout September, and so small potholes and sloughs and cattle ponds and cricks, things like that are going to be places where you're going to find those birds. September is a great time of the year, early part of the year is a great time for folks to come up that don't want to have to battle the elements, that don't want to have to battle cold and snow and ice and those things. It's a good time of year to bring up kids because of those conditions. They're a little bit easier to handle or maybe for an older hunter that doesn't want to have to bundle up in overalls and whatnot. And so it's a good time of the year to come. There are some challenges about early season though, freelancing on the PPR. For one, migration by and large has not kicked into high gear. So you're hunting mainly localized birds or localized populations. You get into Canada, obviously that's a different deal. You're probably dealing with a little bigger abundance of birds just because of the availability of breeding and nesting habitat up in Canada. But if you're here in North Dakota, South Dakota, you're going to be dealing with localized populations of Canada geese and ducks that were hatched here on the prairie. And so you may not be dealing with really large numbers of birds, and so being realistic about the types of situations that you're going to try to find. You may only be hunting a field with 1,000 mallards rather than 10,000 later in the year, or maybe 250 honkers rather than 5,000 that you may find later in the season. So being realistic about what you're going to encounter and experience up here. And the big thing for me as a duck hunter, and I love to call, is that early season you're calling for ducks is just not as effective as it is later in the season. Around that mid-October, third week of October for me is when things, when you'll see that duck calling really start to make a difference. And so, you know, because of that then you are really going to want to pay attention to or put a lot of emphasis and a lot of work into being on the X. Since I know I'm not going to be able to coerce those ducks into my decoys with the call, I'm going to want to make sure that I'm exactly where they want to be so that I don't have to lean on that calling so much. Some other things that pop to mind about early season is that you're going to have a lot of varied duck species. A September hunt here in North Dakota or South Dakota, you could probably shoot seven or eight species. Blue-winged teal, wigeon, gaddies, mallards, pintails, shovelers. a handful of divers, any of that within a given day. And so that kind of adds to the experience as well for an early season, September to early October type of hunt.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. And this year is really going to be a lot different than what you guys have experienced up there in the prairies in years past and something that we've talked about a lot. on the podcast, you know, in all of our communications is the drought conditions. And the lack of water throughout North Dakota and South Dakota this year is really gonna change the game for a lot of freelancers. You know, how are you taking the approach with the, you know, kind of, there's a lot, I know what, two years ago, or even last year, you dealt with, there was too much water. And so this year, you're kind of going into it knowing that you're not gonna have near as much water. So how do you approach that?

John Pollmman: Yep, so if I was somebody that was coming up to the prairies this fall, I would certainly look at making some phone calls ahead of time. Whether to your local game fish department, landowner contacts that you may have had, hunters that you know in the area. Try to get an idea, put your finger on a little bit what our water conditions are like right now. It is no exaggeration to say that we are awfully dry. I mean, it's been a really dry season. We've gotten enough rain to kind of keep some things green in certain parts of the area, certain parts of the state, North Dakota, South Dakota included. But overall, we're dry. conditions are just not great. And so, if you can get an idea before you get up here, what are water conditions like in the area that you typically hunt? Years where we've had a lot of moisture, and we've had high duck numbers because we've had abundant moisture on the prairies for breeding and nesting season. Those can in some ways be hard seasons to hunt because birds have a lot of different places they can go and they can be spread out all over the landscape. And so I'm not going to say it's a benefit, but it certainly is maybe perhaps a silver lining that When water conditions are lower, birds are going to be concentrated perhaps a little bit more than they normally would. And that means that if you find a roost holding some birds, chances are you're going to find maybe a decent group of birds to work with. But before you get up here, try to find out what those conditions are like. And then be prepared that when you do come up that your Your hunting may be different. The wetlands that do have water this year tend to be your semi-permanents, your permanents, which are going to be deeper, bigger. And so you may be looking at needing to hunt out of a boat or being able to access deeper water with waders or whatever it may be. And then also too, if you're hunting, if there's a slough or something that has some water in it still, the ducks are using, that you may be dealing with large exposed mudflats, you know, really void of any cover and so layout blinds or an A-frame or something like that, being prepared to hunt that mudflat in a way that's going to keep you concealed. There are ways to do it, you know, when we've got conditions like this, but it does take a little bit of planning on the front end.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, and one thing I will point out is North Dakota survey results that came out early August, end of July, right around there, when they did the duck brood count, they're saying it's going to be a significant decrease than the fall flight coming out of North Dakota. I think their estimate was roughly 36% down from last year. But their Canada goose numbers are still fairly strong. Is that something that do you have… Sometimes you take an approach like, man, if I can't find a good pothole or something to hunt, Are you just transitioning to the geese, like maybe looking for some fields that, you know, where you can target some Canada, something like that?

John Pollmman: Chad Jordan Absolutely. You know, you got to take advantage of what you have in front of you. And, you know, my preferred hunt is mallards over water, and that may just not happen a lot this year. You know, and so, yeah, you got to take what you're given a little bit. And I will add, you know, I saw those numbers from the North Dakota Game and Fish, and this early summer, June, even end of May, end of June, I saw a molt migration of non-breeding adults and juvenile Canada geese through Eastern South Dakota, unlike anything I've seen in my 30 plus years of hunting up here. And so I think there are some really good Canada goose numbers this year. And it would not surprise me if that becomes a bread and butter type of hunt for a lot of people this year, just because I think those numbers are there. For about four weeks straight, it was a steady stream of birds moving through South Dakota, Eastern South Dakota, up to the lakes, the water bodies where they're molting. I'm not sure if people, if listeners understand that, but you kind of have a main spring migration in March and April. And then there's a secondary wave later on where these, again, these non-breeding adult birds or birds that have failed nests or juvenile birds that aren't nesting this year will move up to these water bodies. And it could be a county north of me or it could be up into Canada, but where they will go and molt for the summer. And it was an impressive number of Canada geese going north this spring.

Chris Jennings: Wow, that's pretty notable. I mean, that's something that we don't really hear a lot about, but I think that's something to keep in mind when guys are heading up there to freelance up there. And that's the great part about going up there too, is there's a lot of public areas, I guess, but there's also several different ways that you can access private ground as a freelancer, knocking on doors, making phone calls, which is something that's still, readily available up in that area. And, you know, is there anything that any kind of tools or anything that you use to scout for some of these areas, you know, any apps or anything like that that you're using?

John Pollmman: You know, when it comes to getting permission, landing permission as a freelancer, you know, a plat book, which is available through through the different counties in North Dakota, South Dakota, you know, that lists a township and who owns the ground and their address and their phone number, that information obviously is invaluable. I mean, that is, it's a must have. You can find, I use OnX a lot as a way to find a landowner name. You still have to do a little legwork to get the phone number and stuff like that, but that gives you a great starting point. North Dakota this year has started an online posting, private land posting program. In previous years, if private ground was not posted, if you could not find a no hunting sign on a particular piece of ground in North Dakota, it was open. You wouldn't have to get permission. You could go and access that ground. That has changed for North Dakota. and that landowners can post that ground either through a physical sign on the perimeter or online. And the beauty about the online program in North Dakota starting this year is that landowners have the option of putting their information in there. It could just be that they want to know who is on their ground. They don't mind having hunters out there, but they just want to make sure they know who is out there and can kind of control the access. And so the online program, and it's available through North Dakota Game and Fish. If you go to their website, you can find it. It'll list, like I said, the landowner has the option to put their name, excuse me, put a phone number or an email address or a way to contact them. So, you know, tools like that, the plat books, Onyx, you know, the online program, North Dakota Game Fish, that is a, those are huge tools to have. You know, it's, it is still possible to knock on doors and get permission to ground. I'm not gonna lie, it is becoming a little more difficult, even here in South Dakota, to do that. It seems that it's, but it's something that is, you know, odds are that you're still going to be able to freelance and kind of find your own way and knock on doors and get permission. And the one way to keep that. possible and going forward is that, you know, having hunters make sure that you stop by and talk to land or afterward or send them a thank you card or offer some birds or, you know, doing something to let them know that you appreciate, you know, appreciate what they've allowed you to do. You know, closing the gates and following their rules. If they say you can go here, but you can't go there, make sure you do it. You know, not driving across there if it's really muddy conditions, not driving across the field in your truck and You know, doing everything that you can to go above and beyond what's expected to make sure that we are all able to enjoy freelance here moving forward in the future.

Chris Jennings: not only just the tools that you use to find that property, but also just being respectful to landowners there is really important for being able to, for that to continue. I mean, it's obviously changed, and I'm sure you, at your age, you have seen that drastic change from pretty much open lands and being able to knock on a neighbor's door to probably a lot of property being locked down to where people don't have access because one knucklehead hunter But, you know, probably left trash or did something that, you know, was kind of disrespected the landowner and they just shut it down. So all hunters need to keep that in mind, especially, you know, at all times, but especially when they're freelancing up there in the prairie.

John Pollmman: One more pet peeve while I got my soapbox here is that, and this is a pet peeve from landowners that I've talked to, you know, during the harvest season in the fall. It's quite often that you'll see landowners or guys that are renting land or farming the ground that are out harvesting their combines or running green carts or whatever. If you're trying to hunt a particular piece of ground, do whatever you can to not make that combine stop. You know, try to talk to somebody else and not make them, because that's a really busy time of the year for farmers. And when they're on a mission and they're going in that combine and trying to get that crop off the field because weather is coming or whatever it may be, let them finish their job, trying to find another way or get a cell phone number from maybe some guy that's sitting at the green card or something like that to talk to them. But do what you can to not stop them on that combine because chances are, the odds are, they're probably going to say no.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, if you make them work longer, they're probably going to tell you no. So that's a good point. And that's something that maybe some people who didn't grow up in agricultural areas, maybe they don't understand that stopping that combine is basically costing that guy money sometimes. So that's a very good point. Good point, John. You know, just speaking of some of the other tools that you kind of hit on it a little bit, but, you know, what are some of the must-haves? You know, guys are traveling up there, they're loading the truck. What are some things that you recommend, you know, as the local up there, like, hey, man, you should probably bring this. Like, this is one of the most important things. Or what, you know, I'm sure there's several of them.

John Pollmman: Yeah, honestly, one of the first things that comes to mind is, you know, and they're expensive, but they're worth their weight in gold some days, is some sort of a side-by-side UTV, ATV, Ranger, John Deere Gator, something like that, that that you can use to haul gear into a field or access a wetland maybe in the middle of a crop field. There's a lot of time where a landowner will say, go ahead and go out, but I don't want trucks out on the field. And you can offer, would you mind if I'd use my ATV? We can put a trailer up that way. And odds are, since that's something that they use frequently, that they're gonna allow you to do that. And it is a lifesaver when it comes to accessing a staging pond that mallards are hitting before they hit the corn or the wheat field. It's smack dab in the middle of a full section, in the middle of a square mile, and you've got to lug your gear into that little pothole. And you can't use your truck, but he'll let you use a The farmer will let you use your ATV to hook up your trail and take your gear out. It's just a godsend. It saves so much time and energy. That is something that I would definitely bring along. Just being prepared for varying situations. You can do a lot of homework before you go, but it doesn't hurt to have… If you think you're only gonna primarily hunt fields, it still doesn't hurt to have water set up, even if it's small. To have varying decoy styles in your trailer that you're bringing along. Same thing for your clothing, just because the weather can change so much. You can predict quite a bit what the temperatures are going to be like and weather conditions, but you still never know how things could change. Binoculars for scouting or a spotting scope you can mount on your truck window while you're out scouting. That's a huge plus. So you can pinpoint the X what those birds are doing. I know folks that will, if they're traveling a long distance, they will bring a scouting vehicle. specifically for scouting a car or something that gets a little better gas mileage. And it's a little inconspicuous too. When I see a truck pulling an enclosed trailer down a gravel road while I'm out scouting, I know I've got some competition in the area. But if I see a little car or something like that, I can look past it and not really worry about it. So it saves you gas mileage and then it maybe keeps the attention away from other hunters too when you're out scouting to have something like that along. Those are the big ones that come to my mind. Having a way to, this is going to sound kind of silly, but keeping something in your trailer that you can use to mark the X in a field when you're freelancing. After you watch the birds get out of the field and leave, that you can go out and whether it's a utility marking flag that they put in your yard when they were working on utilities or a five gallon bucket or something that you can throw down in the field to mark exactly where you want to go the next morning. You know, when you're hunting new territory, new country, you're not familiar with a field, being able to find that marker in the morning is going to save you a lot of time, you know, and you know then that you're exactly where you need to be from your scouting the night before. You know, those are some things that, you know, kind of strange things maybe that come to mind, but those are things that I know that as a freelancer that I've come to count on over the years.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, no, those are good. And you kind of hit on the layout blinds and potentially even like an A-frame or something like that. Those are always good to have if you're really going to be running and gunning freelance, and you never know the conditions. You may be in areas where there's very little vertical vegetation, and you may have to be able to hide in the middle of nowhere. So that's a good point.

John Pollmman: Well, I was going to say, and if you're hunting too, Chris, late in the season, And even if the weather, the long-term forecast doesn't call for snow, it does not hurt. If you're going to be hunting toward the razor's edge toward the end of the season, having some sort of snow cover that you can put on a blind, because those can, you know, New snow and those types of conditions are a great time to hunt up here on the prairies. The birds are packing on the calories. They're hitting the fields to feed before they head south. And those snow covers, whether that's on an A-frame or a layout-style blind, they absolutely make those blinds disappear. And there's probably no better way or no better time to try to field hunt mallards or something like that than when there's some fresh snow on the ground. And having those blinds, the snow covers, they are just something I'd really recommend having along if you're going to be hunting that time of the year.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, and I'm just curious with your hunting up there, do you have better success in the early parts when there's a more abundant species around or you still have a lot of bluing opportunities pretty early, but do you have just as good or better hunting later as the snow does start falling?

John Pollmman: I think it improves as the season goes on. from the standpoint that I think migrating birds or birds that have moved into an area behave differently than birds that are local. They are more apt to decoy. They are more apt to listen and respond to the call. You're dealing with, and I know it sounds kind of strange, but as the season progresses, you're dealing with birds that are in more of their breeding plumage, their full plumage, they're prettier. I mean, in early season, you can get some scrappy brown ducks and it's hard to tell the difference between a hen And so if you're looking for that quintessential, you know, green head mallard shoot later in the season is the time to come. You know, I prefer really from that third weekend of October on till the end of the year is kind of my favorite window to hunt just for those very reasons. We're typically dealing with fresh push of birds around that 25, 26, 27 of October. And then from there on out, it's the migration, when we get some weather to help push some birds out of Canada and North Dakota. I prefer later in the season, but the other side of that coin is that things can change in a heartbeat. You can get a weather system to come in and it can push birds out or it can just make hunting conditions absolutely really, really difficult. So that's the flip side of that situation. But yeah, late season is the time for me.

Chris Jennings: Yeah. And one cool thing about the later in the season is you can get into that mixed season of waterfowl season and pheasant season, which I know you partake in and one of your favorite things to do. So as the season And the duck season gets later, the pheasant hunting seems to pick up a little bit. And I know a bunch of guys who go out there and do that, and that's a good opportunity for some freelancers as well.

John Pollmman: Yeah, absolutely. And that gives you another option too if the ducks aren't cooperating. You get later in the season when the pheasant hunting and upland bird hunting, primarily pheasants, when the crops get out Early in season, early October, corn is still standing, soybeans are still standing. The hunting can be really hard for pheasants until about the last hour, the golden hour of the day when those crops are out. those birds don't have those millions of acres of corn to hide in, and so they're forced to use more typical cover that's a little bit more huntable for guys. So yeah, it's a great secondary activity if you're going to freelance ducks up here, and some days it's your primary activity when the birds aren't cooperating.

Chris Jennings: No, and I got one more question for you before I let you go, but the fall snow goose. As snow's kind of passed through there, you know, are there a lot of guys taking advantage of that from a freelance perspective? And if so, like, how are they approaching that in the fall?

John Pollmman: Sure, you know, this is something that's, I mean, I'm sure it's probably in the last decade or so it's really become more popular. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that there were so many guys that had invested, or hunters, I should say, that had invested thousands of dollars in snow geese equipment for the spring season. And they were thinking, what do I do with this stuff now in the fall? And so they started experimenting, I think, a little bit with these fall opportunities. I know quite a few people that will travel to Canada to freelance snows because those birds are coming across the tree line out of the tundra. They're more vulnerable to decoying and more apt to decoy. And so, it's something where it's a little more, unlike spring, it's a little bit more like they are moving from, you know, they will do a roost to a field type of a pattern, and guys are gonna try to target them that way. In Canada, you know, you can use an e-collar, and it's something that, which obviously is a big aid. You get down into the U.S. side of the border, and I don't believe you can use those in any states at this point during the fall. But, they're still using targeting birds as they establish a roost-to-feed type of a situation. You get down further in the flyway, I know, even guys down in your neck of the woods, down in Arkansas, Mississippi, folks are hunting snows before the conservation order season comes into play. It's something that people are finding success maybe just within a travel, a migration corridor, or a place where there's a lot of traffic. It's kind of a numbers game. The more birds you can put over the top of you, the better the odds you are of decoying some birds. But the guys that I know that do it here in South Dakota, it is something that is a passion. I mean, they love hunting snow geese just because of the thrill of seeing these big mobs of birds. Everything that's important in the spring is important in the fall in terms of concealment and motion, whether that's using flags or some sort of vortex, a motorized motion decoy in the back of the decoy spread. A lot of those same things are important during the fall. I think that it's sometimes too, it's a little bit easier in the fall to get permission. If you've got snow geese that are attacking winter wheat that's already emerged, you've got landowners or farmers that want to get those birds off of it. And so you're able to get some permission that way too. But it's full body decoys, layout blinds, motion. A lot of it is the same in the fall as it is in the spring, but you're targeting those birds like you would almost can the geese or ducks from a roost to a feed type of a situation.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, kind of looking for that X rather than looking for that flight line, I guess. Exactly. Yeah. And really, like you said, I think that's a good opportunity for freelancers if they're struggling with ducks or something or even a potential lack of water, which could be an issue this year. The opportunities for and to get access to being destroyed by a big flock of snows. That's a good opportunity for freelancers this year and something to keep in mind where you can shoot some snows. But no, I think those are all great tips for the prairies. And if there's anything else you can think of before I get you out of here as our resident prairie pothole region hunter and specialist up there, is there anything else you might want to remind someone who's getting ready to hop in the truck and head north?

John Pollmman: You know, I think one of the… Honestly, the biggest thing that comes to my mind is, again, it goes back to the relationships with the landowners and that the only way that something like this stays viable and stays an option for us is that we have to do what we can to make sure we show our appreciation for the ability to scout and set up for and enjoy a hunt that is all under your control. And it's something that, you know, it's a lot of work, It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort, but it's so enjoyable and so worthwhile when everything comes together. And it wouldn't be able to happen if you didn't have landowners that were willing to say, go ahead and hunt those birds the next day or whatever it may be. So making sure that you… Thank them, be courteous to them, follow their rules. And don't be afraid to drop off a note, even in the off season. Send a card with a picture on the back, with a note on the back, maybe from the hunt and just as a reminder that you were there and that you appreciated the opportunity. And all of that effort is time well invested in my book. But if you haven't been up here to the prairies to freelance, I would certainly recommend it. You can certainly lean on folks like me or folks from the different game fish departments to kind of help point you in the right direction. It's a great way to spend a few days up here on the prairies in October, November, or even September. And like I say, if you haven't done it before, I certainly encourage you to try it.

Chris Jennings: That's awesome, John. And that's why I like you, the honesty here, because all the guys in Arkansas are telling everybody, stay out, there's no ducks, and you're inviting everybody up to the prairies. Come on up. There's plenty

John Pollmman: Well, I don't know about that, but no. It is. This is a special place. I mean, the prairies are a special place and I feel blessed to be able to live up here. I've made some really, really good friends from out of state over the years that have come up here that I've been able to meet and people that I count as dear friends. In fact, one of them probably listening to this podcast right now. And so this is a special place, and it's something I'm sure willing to help share and help them enjoy. Don't ask me for my spots, but I'll certainly help point you in the right direction.

Chris Jennings: Go give me some tips, but I'm not going to tell you where I'm going. Exactly. That's perfect. No, that's great, John. I appreciate it. This has been a good conversation. who's planning on heading up to the prairies, take some of these good tips that you provided and really take some to heart, especially the landowner relationship deal. I think that's a big thing for all hunters. It doesn't matter if you're in the prairies or not, anywhere throughout the country and even Canada, just remember that that landowner relationship is really important and something that really needs to be stressed to anyone that's visiting an area. So I'm glad you brought that up. All right, John, this has been great. I'm going to get you out of here, but I appreciate you coming on the show. It's awesome.

John Pollmman: Thanks, Chris. Happy to be with you.

Chris Jennings: I'd like to thank my guests, John Pollmann, Ducks Unlimited Magazine and Ducks Outdoor contributor for enlightening all of us on the joys of hunting the prairies and just some good tips and some real, real good knowledge for anyone who's going producer, Clay Baird, for putting the show together and getting it out to you. And I'd like to thank you, the listener, for joining us in the DU Podcast and supporting wetlands conservation.