Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Chris Jennings: I've got a good friend of Ducks Unlimited and a good friend of the DU podcast, Mike Stewart, owner and operator of Wild Rose Kennels. Mike, welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me, Chris. It is duck season now. We are in the middle of it. Some people's duck seasons are even getting ready to close, especially those people way up north. But I wanted to bring you on the show here today and talk to you about retriever injuries. in-season injuries, and really the first thing I wanted to dive into is really some of the more common injuries that you see that retrievers have during the season. What are some of those common injuries that you see on a regular basis?

Mike Stewart: Most of them are pretty obvious. Number one is a broken nail, toenail, which is very painful for the dog and it puts you of the hunt for at least two weeks. A slice to the pad. Lots of old duck blinds have sharp obliques in them. The dog dives off in the water and lands on a broken piece of glass or anything that's… We also get in these rice fields with a stubby cut of the rice and stubble or wheat stubble jams through their webbing of the foot. Those are serious types of injuries. They're going to lay you up for a couple of weeks. The other one you get into is strained muscles, pulled ACLs, pulled shoulders and knees, those more athletic types of injuries. And I'll tell you this, right now I've sort of got to be a coach. What you need to do is do some, like you said, we're into the end of the season now, but we should have done some preseason conditioning, getting these dogs in running shape and active. stretching those muscles, get them cold acclimated, dog staying in the house full time and then all of a sudden we throw them out in sub-zero temperatures or sub-freezing temperatures and expect them to perform, they're going to shut down. Cold acclimation I think is important, get the dog staying outside quite a bit, feeding the right balance of diet, What we want to do going into the season is start raising the food content, getting that energy level up. That's what keeps them warm, the fat in the food. You don't have to increase or change the brand of the food. I wouldn't do that. I would just start increasing the amount of food and make sure that your protein-fat ratio is correct. So your hypothermia and your cold weather injuries are coming from a lot of times it's just the dog is not in shape, it's not been warmed up, he's not stretched his muscles out good, and we take him straight from the home off the couch and throw him in a really, really cold, slick, slimy conditions and expect him to perform. So some of this, some of the injuries can be avoided.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, you know, and I've even looked at a couple things and a couple things that we've we've had where, you know, dogs, hunting dogs during the season are burning like 80% more calories than what they are during the rest of the season. And you kind of hit on that. You know, I see a lot of dogs throughout the season, you know, run into people whose dogs have gotten, you know, really skinny throughout the season. And do you think that's, you know, just the nature of, you know, the dogs are really, really working hard or is it something where people should really look at increasing that that amount of food that these dogs are getting. That's kind of what you're saying, isn't it?

Mike Stewart: Exactly. You made both points. It's something you should watch as an owner handler. You should watch the body condition of your dog, the body score of your dog. If they're losing weight, you've got to put more protein and more fat in it. It's not so much the protein, it's the fat. That's what they're burning. That's where they're burning the calories. It's not a great idea to feed them before the hunt either. Research has shown it's better to feed them the evening before, probably 30 minutes to an hour after exercise, and so that all that digestion is about finished, and it's actually energy. It takes about 12 hours to convert food into energy in the dog's body. So if we're feeding them in the morning thinking it's doing them some good, it's probably detrimental. So you need to feed them in the evening so that digestion has turned a lot of that food source into energy. And that's what you're looking for is that fat content. So if you start seeing the body score of your dog, seeing those ribs getting too obvious, the flank is too narrow, and also about mid-morning on a cold day if the dog just quits, it could be just run out of gas. So you're going to have to slowly increase your food content of the fat proteins and also the amount that you're feeding. So I like to go into season gradually increasing the amount I'm feeding. All through season I'm rising it to the end of season and then I slowly drop it after season.

Chris Jennings: So that's a pretty slow process too. It's something that, you know, just a reminder what people should should have started, you know, several, several months ago. But you know, it is something for hunters now while they're out hunting and really, really on that in season grind is to really keep an eye on on the dogs. And what do you recommend? Like if you when you talk about, you know, keep an eye on the body condition? How are you really judging that is just kind of by, you know, the eye test? Or is there a way that you can reach down and feel? You know, anything within the dog's, you know, abdomen or or anything, is there anything that you can kind of look at and be like, oh, we need to definitely increase the fat content in their food?

Mike Stewart: Well, we have a scale around here, and we take the weights, obviously, but most people don't have that, but it's pretty easy to stand on the weight scale at your house, then pick your dog up. That gives you a pretty good idea of what your dog's weight is. If he's dropping in pounds, that's number one. Number two, look at the body score standing over the dog, looking directly down at the dog. If the flanks are caved in, you should see just a small amount of indention in the waist. Almost see a slight definition of that back rib of the rib cage. If you start seeing two or three ribs and a really indention there, then you're probably going to have a probably got a dog that is not in proper condition. I'll tell you a couple of resources. You can go on the Perennial website, ProPlan, they have a chart there. Skate around, you'll find it. Or you can also go to uklabs.com, look at our videos library, and there's a 10, we have 16 series, part series on how to to raise a puppy, but I have one video in there I did with a parade on body score, and I actually video two dogs standing side by side. So that's a visual resource if you want to look that up, just go to UK labs, look at our library, look at the parade of content, and you'll see nutrition. Click on that video, it's about two minutes long.

Chris Jennings: Awesome, that's a great resource, and that'll give people an idea of how to, you know, to look at that body score. That's awesome. Other than the nutrition side of things, you mentioned it a little bit, you're taking these dogs, some of whom have been laying around the house quite a bit more than what they probably should, getting accustomed to that air conditioner and that heater. Our hunters are taking these dogs out sometimes in these really frigid conditions. and you run into everything from frostbite and hypothermia. What is some things that people can look at when they're taking these dogs into these really, really cold conditions? What are some things that they should avoid with their retriever in this like super cold water, icy.

Mike Stewart: My rule is high and dry. Keep the dog out of the water as much as possible. Keep them on water stands. Keep them lining down the bank, for instance, instead of going out. If you have an opportunity to say, for instance, on a rice field, if you can line them down the bank and hang them into the water and pick the bird and then back. Oh, he's running the bike. Well, that can be a plus for you in these types of conditions. If you can keep the dog up running out of the water as much as possible, keeping the body dry as possible, keeping them up so when they jump back into the duck blind, you've got a nice place out of the wind. You can build some wind breaks around your dog hide to break that wind so he's going to dry out much more comfortably than the high wind blowing against him when he's pops back in. I've seen some of my dogs come back, jump in the duck blind, turn around, and there's solid frost all over them, just ice hanging on them. So it's much better if they can tuck inside the blind, if they can get inside the dog hide. It's very easy to insulate. If you don't have an insulated blind, it's pretty easy to do. All you need is a couple of pieces of carpet. Stretch it over the top just to knock that wind off. Helps a whole lot. There's portable dog hides you can get on the market now that are pretty cool that you can lay them down and say in a field or on a field stand. They come back and jump up into that hide. Takes them completely out of that wind. And of course, there's the thermal vest. Just make sure the thing fits properly. Some people get one that's too tight and it chafes the dog under his armpits and chest, or they're too loose and then it becomes dangerous. Debris gets stuck in them, limbs get stuck in them. So you've got to really get the product fitted for your dog and make sure it actually fits that dog. And so there again, there goes the body content. Maybe last summer it was really tight and now it's not so tight. So you have to make some adjustments. But high and dry is a big thing. And don't forget hydration. These dogs are burning that energy out there. They're going to get thirsty. You may not think they do. And then they drink that swampy water out there where they've been. having pesticides, herbicides, and fertilizer blown all over those fields all summer, now they're drinking that water. So take clean water with you and give them drinks of water, at least offer it during periodics of the day. I don't like to see one standing out in those fields laughing that murky water up.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, some of those fields can get pretty disgusting, especially as the season rolls on and they've had water on them for several months. It can definitely Definitely cause an issue you know one thing that we've talked you know i've talked about in. several different occasions, including on the podcast, but I'd like to touch on it again, just something that, you know, people should have and be prepared for, but, you know, a retriever blind bag, and, you know, that blind bag is going to change drastically. You know, we talked about it early in the season, and it was more of a training bag, and even a dove bag, but throughout the season, how are you changing out the equipment that you're putting in this, you know, retriever bag that you take to the field with you all the time?

Mike Stewart: Well, the basics for the dog, of course, I've already mentioned the vest. And you also want a nice tree tile lead in case you have to leash your dog for any particular reason. Let's say you've got a dog that's not that steady. He has become a hypothermic. You need to be able to tile that dog and secure it. So always keep a lead. In the back, but even more important. I think you're gonna need a small mini First aid kit if you will I'm gonna have things in there like vet wrap gauze tweezers Hemostats I want us a knife where if a dog got entangled could you cut him loose? You need a big heavy bladed knife that you could go out there and whack that dog got tangled in something Can you get him cut loose? I've seen that one actually happen several times. You need alcohol, eye down rubs, those kinds of things just for basic first aid I think are very important for health immediately on hand. So let's say you've got your dog, cuts his pad, rips the pad off and maybe tells the webbing, I think it's going to bleed terribly and now you're standing in murky, nasty water that would just prone to infection. You could clean that out with a nice solanine solution, put an iodine scrub on it, wrap it with gauze and wrap it with vet wrap and get the dog off back to the vet. At the end of the day, always have something to swap, flush the dog's eyes and swab them out. If you're working in grassy type, seedy grasses, where there's debris gets in the dog's eyes when the dog is running with a bird in his mouth, he's catching debris directly in his eyes. You need to clean those out at the end of the day or you're going to end up with abscess.

Chris Jennings: You know, one thing that, you know, we talk about a lot around the office is, you know, icy conditions. And how do you explain to people, you know, it's hard to prepare a dog for icy conditions when especially, you know, you've got you know, a facility there in Oxford, Mississippi, yet that dog may be going to travel and hunt in Nebraska or even North Dakota. How are you kind of talking to people about introducing their dogs to icy conditions and then how should they handle that dog in those conditions?

Mike Stewart: Well, that's one really dangerous area that I put out a lot of water caution, and then I'll still see somebody publish something or say something on social media about the long-retrieved bait across the water on ice, falling through the ice, and I'm thinking, oh my goodness, this is so dangerous. Is the bird really worked out? Some people think it is, but at the same time, you can lose a dog really quickly on ice. Here's a couple of situations. Really slick, icy conditions. The dogs are high powered running. They're used to running on solid ground. You launch your dog off. He's got some footing on the ground on the exit, exits the blind and hit slick ice. You're going to blow an ACL, a shoulder, a knee. You got some surgeries coming up off of that. And I've seen clients do that. I actually know the stories about that's happened to clients. And out of La Plata, it's happened in Alaska where they blow the ACL. These are athletes and they're not, some of the times they're not used to running on that ice. And so all of a sudden we put them out there, they start slipping and sliding. It may be funny out there crashing through the decoys, but it's certainly not gonna be when you get that surgery bill. And your dog is laid up for the rest of the year, by the way. The other one I see is, I've run into several times, especially down here in the South, where we get this black ice. It's not really thick, the dog can't stand up on it. and he's constantly falling through it, and he can't get back up on it. Every time he tries to get back up on it, he simply crawls back, falls back through it. So a dog that's not used to chopping, you know, whacking through that ice like a rubber teller, he's just going to just become hypothermic out there. He's going to be very confused and not really know how to get out of that situation.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, Mike, you know, people get that bill for the ACL surgery. And that's no joke. But, you know, you had mentioned something, you know, we've talked a lot about, you know, some different kinds of black ice and how people, you know, let their dogs get out on that. And that can get very dangerous.

Mike Stewart: Well, Mike has what I'm speaking out is you can't really see it. It's just a light film of ice on top of the water. We really get that down here in the south. It froze over in the evening. The dog falls through it. He can't get on top of it, and he starts trying to chop and get around. He goes out there, gets the bird, tries to get back, trying to push the bird through, but he can't get on the ice. Every time he does, he falls in it. Some dogs panic, and they can't really see it. It's just hitting them in the chest as they start moving forward. Forward that tends to be a problem that I've run into an experience with dogs And the other one is very dangerous that we don't get much in the south. They do in the north You have to watch for his rivers They'll freeze over in a certain water level and then the water drops underneath the river, but you've got this solid piece of ice across the river dog goes out and falls in and he's Two or three feet below the ice, you know, he can swim around but he can't get out and That is really dangerous when the dog becomes trapped and starts moving down river and you just don't see them again. Unless you get lucky and they get some ice and they can pop back through it. But if you've got ice and snow, that's the best of all. It's got traction on that, but it's just that slick ice, you've got to be so careful.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, you know, I used to know guys who would hunt their dogs on the river where I grew up in Indiana that the ice flows would start packing up on the Wabash River. And you know, they're still trying to hunt on certain pockets and creeks and these ice flows would pack up and they would still let their dogs go out on these like big stacks of, you know, kind of packed ice and I would never let my dog go out there. I take a little bit more caution on that, you know, rather than and see the dog fall through the ice like that, you know, so we've kind of gone through this full list of things for people to think about in season. gone through the vest, but what are some things that you tell people in the middle of the season to really pay attention to for your dog that may not be on the list that we just went through?

Mike Stewart: I'm going to circle back around and mention nails. Keep an eye every night on your nails and eyes. You're not doing a lot of debris hunting like upland, cleaning those eyes, but I've seen so many dogs that get abscesses and eye problems because of the debris that was not cleaned at the end of the day's hunt. In other words, keeping those nails trimmed and watching for cracks, breakage, those types of things. And the last one that we haven't touched on is coal tail. What do you do about that? You know, dogs all of a sudden, you know, really science can't explain it. I've seen dogs on fairly warm days come back with coattail, tail drooping to the rear, and it's extremely painful for the dog. So my action on that one is, that's when I said, OK, put the dog up, get him warm, get him in the hob, tie him up, get him down, if you've got a heater going on, put him down by that heater. And if you've got Remedil, Remedil works really well on sore joints. sprains, but it also works well in cold tail. And you'll see progress in anywhere from a few hours to one or two days.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, can you kind of explain what that cold tail is? I mean, that's a good point. I forgot to bring that one up, but I think most people don't even know what cold tail is.

Mike Stewart: Well, most vets can't explain it either. We really don't know where it comes from. And I don't think there's any precondition you can really do. I saw Drake back in his day. He came back swimming with his front legs and his back legs. I thought he'd broken his back. They were just back behind him like an otter. And basically, it was coattail. He couldn't get up on the water stand. You'll see that your dog has become very lethargic. He's tense. He's arching his back. He doesn't want to use his back legs. And if you lift his tail or touch him between his pelvis and the rear, he's going to yelp. And you need to stop right there. No amount of, you know, people just don't want to be applying force to your dog. A dog is not doing a refusal. You need to recognize the signs of it. The signs behind it, there's a lot, there's many reasons behind it that you would possibly could think of. But nobody really knows the signs behind it and nobody really knows there's a prevention. There's no injection. There's no food intake. There's no preventive medicine for it. It just shows up and disappears.

Chris Jennings: I know several people whose dogs have had that, and it does appear to be extremely painful for the dog. You know it when the dog has it, for sure.

Mike Stewart: Get them dry, get them warm, and remedial. Yes, that needs to be in your vet kit. Just have that stuff there. And it's really good for sprains. Another thing you have to watch is these dogs, these duck blinds that we have in the south, the big, tall duck blinds with these long ramps. Those things will freeze over at night. They'll be wet. And that solid ice going up and down them, dog's going to pull a joint. He's going to pull a muscle on a lot of those ramps if you're not careful. So one is you want to try to make sure that the dog doesn't have a problem. It's not slipping and sliding. Make sure that you're taking every precaution to keep them from injury. But if you do have a pull muscle like that, Rivendell works well. And just adult doses of aspirin. Aspirin, I keep that in my vet kit all the time. Adult dose for normal retriever size, that really helps a lot with the pain.

Chris Jennings: Wow, those are some good things to have on hand, especially the aspirin. And really, like you said, the first thing you want to do in situations, most situations when you're hunting, is get that dog out of the water and get it warm. I think that's the first step for most situations. I have one more question for you before we let you go, and this is just something I'm kind of curious about what your thoughts are. I see a lot of people hunting, their dogs are wearing those goggles now. You see Do you have any experience with those or have you introduced those to any dogs? And what should people do if they want to introduce those to their dog? Well, my good friend, Hattie Billups.

Mike Stewart: had more experience with it, with a big pup we have named Gus. He's one of our sires now. Very good retriever. And she does multi-game hunting with him. He's an upland dog, waterfowl dog, and she wanted to hunt some sand cranes and geese as well. So she started and said, OK, we need these goggles because, you know, those cranes are prone to go with their beak straight for the dog's chest, neck and eyes. And a strike there with one of those birds is quite dangerous for the dog. But we had to prepare the dog. You can't just slap those on and go. So she had this dog wearing these goggles around all summer long, which was hilarious. He's out there trying to say, I can't see, I can't see. And all of a sudden he got used to them, paid no attention to them at all. And he can perform great in the field with them. So in those situations, yes, geese and sand crane. But for the average duck, not necessary.

Chris Jennings: Not necessary. Yeah, no, you know, I've had people ask me about it. And they're just they're asking me about it. And I'm like, man, I ended up with a pair. But you know, my dog's like 10 years old. And I'm trying to put these on a 10 year old dog. He's never had them on. I'm like, Yeah, she just throws them out. So that's why I just wanted to ask you if you had any experience and how that introduction process works and It sounds like you do.

Mike Stewart: The first time he sees those should not be sunrise on opening day. You better prepare before you get there.

Chris Jennings: Yeah, that's right. It's just like everything else. It's all about introductions. We did an entire podcast earlier this year on introductions, and I'm sure we can add the goggles to the list of introductions. Mike, this has been great. I'm going to try and get you on here real soon. cover a couple other topics, especially as we get later in the season. I'm sure maybe our listeners will have some questions. That's another thing. If our listeners do have any questions for you, I recommend them to email us at dupodcast.ducks.org. And then we can kind of bounce off that. I think that may be a good idea to open it up. And you can answer some of these questions, either whether it be limber tail or nutrition or conditioning or something like that. I think that's a great way to reach out to our audience and a great way for you to connect as well. I do appreciate you joining me, thanks.

Mike Stewart: Thanks for having me, and we look forward to our next edition when we do have some of those questions. That'd be a lot of fun.

Chris Jennings: I'd like to thank my guest, Mike Stewart, for joining me today on the Ducks Limited Podcast. I'd like to thank Clay Baird, our producer, for doing a great job getting this out to you. And I'd like to thank you, the listener, for listening today and supporting wetlands conservation.