Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Nathan Ratchford: Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host today, Nathan Ratchford. We're kicking off our first episode of our Sporting Dog Month. I'm joined here in studio by my co-host, Matt Harrison, and we're very excited to welcome Dr. RuthAnn Lobos from Purina today. Welcome, RuthAnn.

RuthAnn Lobos: Hey, thanks for having me.

Nathan Ratchford: Today, we're going to be talking puppies. Everyone's favorite subject. Everybody. It's that time of month. It's spring. Puppies are on the mind, and we couldn't be more excited to dive in. But before we do, Dr. Lobos, would you mind introducing yourself to our listeners? Sure.

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah. So, Dr. RuthAnn Lobos, senior veterinarian at Purina. I've been with them for almost 20 years. So, for your listeners and viewers, that means I started when I was about nine. But I do a number of, wear a number of hats at Purina, but one of, I think one of my favorites is supporting our sporting dog group. which also is involved in conservation organizations like Ducks Unlimited. So I do a lot of talking on sporting dog nutrition and health and how to make sure we maximize their lifespan and their health span. I currently live in Boulder, Colorado, but I am from Louisiana, grew up in Baton Rouge and went to LSU. undergrad in vet school. That's right. Go Tigers. It's fun to say that in and around this country where we've got Mississippi State and Ole Miss and Alabama in a stone's throw. But I've got a yellow lab at home. I like to call him my gateway dog into the hunting world. His name's Finn and he's about 10 and a half. And then we just brought home Our Griff puppy, who was up at Dawkins Kennels outside of Minneapolis getting her training going, so we've got kind of a flushing pointing pair. Also have a human who is 10, and he's a fun-loving little boy that we have gotten to really enjoy and appreciate the outdoor world.

Nathan Ratchford: How old's the Griff puppy now?

RuthAnn Lobos: She just turned a year.

Nathan Ratchford: So still very much a puppy?

RuthAnn Lobos: Very much a puppy. I like to call her my wild Muppet.

Nathan Ratchford: So that's your first versatile breed? Yes. And her name is? Journey. A new Journey. It's appropriate. I like it.

RuthAnn Lobos: Everybody asks if we like the 80s band, and I'm like, I do. I do like Journey the band, but it's really about the Journey that she takes us on that all our bird dogs do.

Nathan Ratchford: I like that name. So when she's misbehaving, you just don't stop believing, right? I'm sorry, I couldn't. It was right there. I couldn't help it. That was a good softball. I love it. Well, yeah. So tell us a little bit about how you came to Purina, your background in veterinary medicine, and what led you to the sporting dog world.

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah, so, you know, I took, my dad is an entrepreneur and he's owned, you know, he's owned several businesses throughout our lives and he always taught me or instilled in me that when you have the opportunity for an interview, At least explore it. And so I was in private practice. I was living in Austin, Texas. One of my classmates who was actually working for Purina gave me a call and said, hey, Purina's hiring and they're looking to expand their support of the college veterinary program. And do you know anybody who might be interested in working for Purina? And he was like, I know it's not you because you love to do surgery and you love practice. And I was like, hmm. I was like, I don't know, maybe I might be interested. And so, you know, fast forward, called, submitted an application, got an interview. And I will say, you know, I walked in the doors at Purina for my in-person second round interviews. I was just blown away by the passion and the commitment. And everybody that I talked to had been working there for 10, 15, 20 years. And I'm like, there's gotta be something about this company that keeps people around this long. And I fell in love. I drank the Kool-Aid. Now I got checkerboard blood running through me. So, you know, and it's been, it's been a, no pun intended, it's been a journey over this last almost two decades of supporting our program that supports the veterinary schools. And then because I'm also a distance athlete, I run marathons and I'm a recovering triathlete. And so always active and really looking to know, you know, that I take care of my body with you know, if I get injured with physical therapy or massage or acupuncture or things like that. And I was like, we should be doing this for our dogs as well. And so that kind of led me into getting certified in canine rehab, also in veterinary acupuncture. And that was just kind of a natural fit of, hey, like our sporting dogs are out there, you know, they're putting wear and tear on their bodies and let's, you know, nutrition is foundational to their success out there, but then also taking care of their bodies in, you know, through other modalities. And so that's kind of what merged me into the sporting dog group and supporting that. And then, you know, of course, Finn got me into got me into hunting and I haven't looked back.

Matthew Harrison: That's awesome. Now do you still do any type of practice in surgery at all?

RuthAnn Lobos: So I'll do surgery here and there, but I am in a practice a couple of days a month. Cause I really like, I mean, that's why I went to vet school was to be able to put my skills into action. And I like to say I'll be a quote unquote real veterinarian when I'm out there. So a couple of days a month I'm in a practice and then just depending on the schedule, I might do some routine surgeries, but I haven't done like an orthopedic surgery in a hot second. So I'll leave those to the specialists.

Nathan Ratchford: What does your day-to-day look like with Purina?

RuthAnn Lobos: There is no same day, which is also, I think, what I love about it. I mean, it can be things like flying here and doing this podcast, and then I'm headed down to Prairie Wildlife to do a sporting dog seminar with Ronnie and Susanna Smith. And then, you know, two weeks ago, I was down at Wild Rose Kennels doing some seminars as part of their handlers seminars. And then there are the days where I sit in my home office in Boulder, Colorado on Teams calls for six or seven hours.

Matthew Harrison: That's your favorite thing to do. Yeah.

RuthAnn Lobos: I mean, you know, talk to people and be around dogs or sit in my office. On calls. Yeah, yeah. You know, but it keeps me honest and balances the work.

Nathan Ratchford: And what does a lot of your education and instruction look like at these seminars? What do you tend to focus on when you're going?

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah, so obviously a lot about nutrition and I think there's so many myths out there about you know, pet food in general, you know, whether that's villainizing certain ingredients or, you know, certain forms of food, whether that's kibble or fresh or canned. And I mean, it's a huge market and there's just, there's lots of misinformation that's out there. So I really try to focus on, obviously, I would love them to all feed ProPlan. But when I'm giving the talk, I give some guidelines on how you kind of navigate that space and maybe those marketing claims that don't have any science behind them. And then talk a lot about just how we keep our dog's health span and lifespan in tip-top shape. Because again, there's small things that you can do that make huge differences in the long term.

Nathan Ratchford: Well, as you know, it starts as soon as you bring them home, right? Yes, it does. So today we're going to be talking a little bit about puppies and giving our listeners some guidance on vaccinations and nutrition and how important that is as soon as you bring the puppy home. I know for myself, he's just over five months old, and we need an additional round of vaccinations down here as well, just because of how prevalent Parvo is. So I want to go through a little bit about what that typical schedule looks like, and what puppy owners should be mindful of while they're trying to balance socialization and exposing that puppy to the world, but also being mindful of that they're not fully protected, right? So I want to talk a little bit about the immunity gap, right? So puppies get, you know, an immune response from their mother, right?

RuthAnn Lobos: Yep, yep. So they get colostrum. There's ideally, that's why again, it's so important in that literally that first 48 hours that they are nursing from mom or a mom because they, you know, they're born without antibodies, without any sort of protection. And so they do through passive transfer, what that's called, in the colostrum, they get those antibodies and their little GI tract is still for lack of a better phrase, open, so it can get those big antibody particles from the GI tract and then into their bloodstream. So, that first 48 hours is so critical for those puppies.

Nathan Ratchford: And, you know, we take them home at eight weeks old, right? And where do we go from there? What's the best time to start that vaccination schedule and what does it look like?

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah, so usually, you know, the breeder will, you know, give a vaccine around six weeks of age. They usually get their first distemper parvo combination vaccine around there. Some wait till seven or eight weeks. There's kind of a, it's kind of open for that range, if you will. And then it's every three to four weeks, usually for four rounds of that distemper parvo. And then The other one that has just recently become a core vaccine for AHA, which is the American Association of Animal Hospitals. And they kind of set guidelines of what the most important vaccines are for every dog. And then the other ones will kind of vary just depending on their lifestyle and location and things like that. This one, the lepto vaccine, leptospirosis, it's a bacteria. It's got six different strains that's there, but it is spread in the urine of wildlife. And so it's everywhere. We used to just say that, oh, this is important for dogs who are, you know, for like our dogs that go out in the wilderness that are, in and around wildlife and things like that. But now it's like, there are raccoons and possums and all that, like, you know, in suburbia. So, we started to see that it was like the most common dog that would get lepto was like the little white Maltese that goes to doggy daycare, but because they're just not protected and it's, you know, everywhere in the environment. So, lepto just became a core vaccine. And that is one, it has a history, the first time, kind of the first rounds that were put out in the market caused a bit more of a reaction. And so they'd get swelling, they'd get, you know, on their hip and they'd get really sore and then people didn't want to get that vaccine for their dogs. They have updated all of that and it now has no higher reaction rate than a rabies vaccine does. But those four rounds that are spaced out like that are key because you get this immune response and immediate reaction that goes up and then about two weeks later it starts to kind of dip down. And then you still have those maternal antibodies from the mom that are circulating. And those are there typically till about 13 or 14 weeks old. So you want to have at least one more vaccine after that stage to make sure that this pup is producing their own vaccines and has that immunity.

Nathan Ratchford: Now, Parvo, and remind me again in that first initial shot, it's Parvo and… Distemper. Distemper. Now, Parvo, to my understanding, I mean, I know how lethal it could be, right? But being mindful for owners, Where does it come from? It's primarily from other canines, is that right?

RuthAnn Lobos: And then it gets deposited in the ground. And so that's the tough part is like it can stay alive for a long time in the soil and in that water area. And it, yeah, it can be lethal for our pups. And so to your question about, you know, this balance of protecting them from the bad guys in the environment, and yet we want them to be socialized and well-adjusted and, you know, and have that resiliency in whatever scenario we put them in, I talk a lot about You know, I love for puppies, and even with my own that we just had, like, you know, we had her in places where you know the vaccine status of the other dogs. So, if you've got neighbors that have, you know, dogs of all shapes and sizes and you know that they've got their vaccines, I love for the puppy to go over there and, you know, and have the dogs come over to your place as well. One that teaches them not only from an actual dog-to-dog socialization, but then also just from a different environment standpoint as well. I try to counsel so hard on like, don't bring them to dog parks. Like one, I think dog parks are like frat houses. It's all fun and games until somebody gets too wound up.

Nathan Ratchford: First rule of dog club is you don't talk about dog club. It really is just a fight club for dogs.

RuthAnn Lobos: Exactly. Or if there's a big open space where you know a lot of people take their dogs, don't do that until they've had that last round of vaccines and not the day they get their last vaccine. So, you know, it takes that 10 to 14 days to really have that peak. But, you know, if there are spaces where the risk is really low, you know, there's not a lot of dogs that go through there, things like that. Or, you know, a lot of places will offer puppy classes where they require the vaccines to be either enrolled or, you know, in that space and things like that. So, avoiding, you know, dog parks and PetSmart or, you know, some sort of pet store. You know, if you do want to take them in there, then keeping them in your arms is, you know, kind of best practice, which I think is okay. Like, if you're going to keep them in your arms and you just want to go walk around the pet store, just again to kind of get that feel or take them to Home Depot or, you know, whatever. I think that's okay as long as you keep them up and with you so they're not running around and sniffing on the ground and that sort of thing.

Nathan Ratchford: Public places that you're not sure of what dogs have been, right? Correct. Just avoid those until the dog is fully vaccinated after four. So at what point roughly is that age-wise?

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah, so usually it's around like four months, kind of depending on the vaccine schedule of the veterinarian that you take them to and that sort of thing. But usually it's around four, four and a half months.

Nathan Ratchford: We also want to talk a little bit about how important nutrition is for a puppy, not only their immune system, but also as they're developing and everything's, they're growing like little weeds, right? I mean, so can you talk a little bit from immune side of things, how important nutrition is during that stage while the dog is still vulnerable, it's growing?

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah. So I, you know, I'm a big fan and it's a, it's a, speaking of gaps, but it's a big gap in a lot of, um, owners sort of repertoire is that we need to feed puppies puppy food, uh, because they do, they have a higher demand for protein because like you said, everything is growing, everything is developing and their immune system, those antibodies are made of protein. So they need that protein source to, to literally build those immune cells. Also, their skin, it's the largest organ in their body and that's a majority made up of protein. So, you know, having that, they also need a higher level of EPA and DHA. So, that's a fat. It's omega-3 fatty acids that come from fish oil. And we know that they need it for both their vision development and their brain development. So, when we're thinking about our hunting dogs, like we… Those are two primary senses that we got to have developed in tip-top shape. And so really making sure that that diet is formulated for puppies is going to be huge. I will say the one caveat to that is if you look at like our ProPlan Sport 30-20 formula, it is It was developed for all life stages. So the way that we get that claim is we have to feed it to the bitch through gestation and lactation while she's feeding her puppies. It has to pass criteria for that. Then it also has to be fed. two puppies in a growth phase, so from eight weeks of age and they're fed for 16 weeks on this diet. And then we have to feed it for six months to adult dogs. And if it passes all the criteria that are set by AAFCO, which is an organization that sets guidelines for pet foods, If it passes gestation and lactation, it passes growth, it passes maintenance, then we can put the claim on the back of the bag that says, by feeding trials, this diet is appropriate for all life stages. So, for example, like with Finn and Journey, one, I need to keep things simple for myself, but also for my husband. He's an arborist, so veterinary care is not top on his skill set. And so I'm like, to make it easy, I just want to feed one food to both dogs. And so with ProPlan Sport, it's formulated and fed for all life stages. And so it was a way to address Journey's needs as a growing puppy and still address Finn with his adult needs as well.

Matthew Harrison: If you do have your puppy on puppy chow or any type of puppy food, at what age should you start weaning them off or taking them off? Is it a direct stop? Is it like, you know, we're just going to completely stop feeding it? Or how does that kind of look as an age-wise for the puppy?

RuthAnn Lobos: Sure. One, I never recommend a hard stop on any diet, no matter what you're on. You're going to wind up with some upset on the back side. Kind of like us. Exactly. But, you know, it's kind of a, there's guidelines, if you will. So typically, you know, for, and it's tough also, like, you know, I'm sure a lot of your listeners are with, you know, have labs in there. They can range in size, like Finn is a tall American Lab. He's 72 pounds, but he's a lean 72 pounds, meaning I can feel his ribs. I can see his waistline. He's got an abdominal tuck that's there. But then you can have other labs that are like 48 pounds. So the loose guideline, any dog that is 50 pounds or above is considered a large breed. And when you start to get above like 90 pounds, that's considered a giant breed. So our large breed dogs will grow until they're about anywhere between 12 and 18 months old. And then our giant breeds will grow until they're probably 24, sometimes 26 months old. Yeah, so they like those Danes, like they just, their growth plates are still open and there's exactly. So somewhere, you know, I usually say somewhere in that like, you know, 18-month time frame is you could switch over to an adult food. I do also, though, I think it's so important from a nutrition standpoint, a couple of factors to think about. One, we always want to keep them lean. So, again, making sure you can feel their ribs. They should have this nice little hourglass waistline that's there. And, you know, and so one of the things that greatly affects their metabolism is if they get spayed or neutered. So it will drop their metabolism by about 30%. Now, we more and more as an industry are understanding that, you know, it used to be, oh, you got to spay and neuter them before they're six months old, before, you know, if you have a female before their first heat, all of this sort of stuff, early spay and neuter. And now what we're learning more and more is that when we spay and neuter them that early, it leaves their growth plates open. And so their long bones, their humerus and their femurs, they actually will grow longer than they were genetically designed to. So it can set them up for all kinds of orthopedic issues and things like that. But if you need to or you want to spay or neuter your dog before they're done growing, We know it does decrease their metabolism by about 30%. So even if you're keeping them on the puppy food, you might need to dial back the quantity that you're putting in there.

Nathan Ratchford: How do you know, I mean, with puppies, they always seem hungry, right? Especially Labrador puppies. How do you, I know looking at the guidelines, they're supposed to be exactly that, their guidelines, right? But some puppies are more active than others. How do you know if your puppy's getting enough food? What are some of the things you look for, both physically and shape and also digestion or anything like that?

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah, yep. So in fairness, we did, there was some recent research that came out that showed some Labradors actually lack the gene to tell them that they are full. So it's not their fault. They literally genetically don't know that they're full.

Matthew Harrison: It's not his fault he's underneath the table just waiting.

RuthAnn Lobos: That's right. It's his genetics. He was born that way. Uh, so, um, you know, but it was so a couple of things with that one. I think it's so important to use a measuring cup, like a real eight ounce measuring cup. Like if you're baking a loaf of bread or whatever. Um, because I, there's so many times where it's the conversation of one, they have no idea. Like I'll talk to an owner. I'm like, how much are you feeding? I don't know. Three scoops. I'm like, I don't know what that means. Like, I mean, there's two handfuls.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah.

RuthAnn Lobos: Or there's the opposite of that where they're like, I'm feeding two cups of food a day. And this is a real-life story. It was a Labrador and he had gained 18 pounds in a year since we had seen him from the year before. And I'm like, what is going on? I think, you know, it was a four-year-old Labrador. And I mean, so I'm like, does he have low thyroid?

Matthew Harrison: He had that gene disorder.

RuthAnn Lobos: I'm like, did grandma move in and she's feeding him snacks all day? And he's like, no. You know, the owner was very adamant. He only gets two cups of food every single day. And I'm like, You know, in my head, I'm like doing the calculations. I'm like, this does not make any sense. And then, then finally I was like, and I pulled out of the drawer in the exam room and I pull out a measuring cup and I'm like, like two of these eight ounce cups. And he's like, Oh no, no, no, no, no. They're the 44 ounce thirst buster cups. And I was like, Oh my God.

Matthew Harrison: Two of those.

RuthAnn Lobos: I was like, okay, well, I think we have cracked the code on this one. But in fairness, he was like, it's a cup. And I'm like, it is a cup, but I'm talking like measuring cup. And one, to your point, so that way, if you're not sure, like, you know, certainly physically looking at them and puppies will go through growth spurts, just like human children as well, where they're kind of get a little roly poly and then they'll shoot up and then they'll, And so it's kind of looking and that's also the bonus of going into the veterinarian for those repeat vaccinations and those boosters is they'll do a weight check on them every time and they can do an assessment and look at kind of like, okay, are we on the right track? Are we on the right growth curve from a weight perspective and a body condition perspective? So certainly talking to them, you know, looking and… I also, I mean, we take so many pictures, or at least I do, maybe y'all don't, of your dogs and your puppy. I have more pictures of my dogs on my phone than I do of my human child. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But so, you know, so kind of looking, that's another thing that I'll tell people is like, I'm like, look at them, you know, over, you know, over a week or so and see what, you know, see how they're doing, like doing a comparison from week to week of those pictures. Because they will, you know, I think they will act like they're hungry a lot, and especially the Labradors that are food motivated, even if they don't have the gene that, you know, they still can be really food motivated. So I think it's important to, one, know the quantity, use those guidelines as guidelines, and then double check in with your veterinarian.

Nathan Ratchford: And look for some indications too, loose stool, I mean, stuff like that. Yeah, that's a great point.

RuthAnn Lobos: Sometimes, you know, they can be, if you are feeding them too much, they literally cannot handle that capacity. And so, you know, at Purina we have, we not only have the body condition score chart to know if your dog is an ideal body condition, but we also have a fecal score chart. the poop chart, as the lay people call it, which I'm like… And so it tells you kind of like, you know, it'll go through a range. And one, as veterinarians, I love that because then my client doesn't have to say, oh, it looks like oatmeal or it looks like pudding or it looks like soft serve. And I'm like, now you have just eliminated all of the foods that I want to eat for the rest of the day. So, instead, they can just point to the picture and say, oh, it looks like this. Now, I think our researchers might have had a little bit of cheekiness to them because you are aiming for a number two for your number two. So it should be, going back to food references, it should be like a Tootsie Roll consistency and it should easily be able to be picked up and stay solid and not leave a whole bunch of residue down on whatever surface you're picking it up from. So that's an indication too that, hey, okay, whatever diet we're feeding, it's amenable to the dog's GI tract and they're using all the nutrients from that food to make nutrients of their own.

Nathan Ratchford: I want to circle back a little bit and go into some of those other ingredients and specifically the puppy formula. I know we talked a little bit about transition to adulthood, but you mentioned the omegas for eye development. Those things are development. What else in that particular formula from Purina? Why? I mean, there's a long list of ingredients, right? And every ingredient matters and there's intention behind it. So, what are some of the other ingredients in there that really make it so specifically designed for growing puppies? If you could talk a little bit about that.

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah. So, I think that's… So, first off, there are a lot of people who focus on ingredients and that is a super hot topic of like, oh, do you have… steel-cut oats and wild blueberries and cranberries and whatever, all these superfoods, acai and in the dog food so that they can have all these magical things. But it's really that our dogs need nutrients, not ingredients. But the only way they can get those nutrients into their bodies is through ingredients, right? So it's, you know, I mean, you need both. But it's really focusing on the nutrients that are provided by those specific ingredients. And, you know, it's kind of dialed back a little bit now, but there was a big movement for a while of like, oh, you should have five ingredients or less in your, you know, in whatever food you're eating. And if it has more than that, you're not eating quote-unquote clean. Well, we can't… We can't literally formulate a dog food that is complete and balanced with all the macronutrients, all the proteins, fats, carbohydrates, things like that, and all those micronutrients, which are the vitamins and minerals, in less than five ingredients. It just can't happen. And so when you look at the back of that ingredient deck on a bag of food, whether it's ours or anybody's, it can be really intimidating because there's like 27 vitamins and minerals that our dogs and cats need. So like that right there listed is going to take up a good chunk of space. And so when we talk about like a growth formula, you know, some of the other kind of key things in there are the calcium to phosphorus ratio. So we want that to be in the right ratio for our growing dogs so that they… Their bones. Yep. So their bones and their teeth and all of that develop properly. One of the things that sometimes, you know, if you, for example, if you have a lab, hypothetically speaking, that is 50 pounds at five months, just hypothetically speaking, It's really leggy. I don't know where I would get this example from, but it's really leggy. And so at this point, they're already 50 pounds. They're already what I would consider, we're on track to be a large breed dog, right? We want, in those cases, it sounds kind of counterintuitive, but for large breed dogs and large breed puppies, we actually want them to grow more slowly. And so a lot of their diets will be lower in calories than your average growth formula is. Because when they grow super fast, we know that sets them up for a whole host of orthopedic diseases. They can get something called HOD, which is hypertrophic osteodystrophy. But it basically is like… Say that three times. But it's basically like, you know, you ever remember as a kid getting growing pains, but imagine growing pains, but like on an exponential level. So it gets really, really super painful for them. So if we can control their growth and have them develop more slowly, that helps to, you know, potentially stave off some of those conditions.

Nathan Ratchford: That's very interesting. That makes me think too about the desire to get puppy out in the field and get working on things, but balancing that with what's appropriate for a puppy developmentally and what's okay on their joints and their growing frame. What are some of your recommendations on activity level in the first six months, how you, again, tone down the need and desire to want to go and be doing retrieves all day. What are some of your advice on a growing puppy, even coming out of the kennel, not letting them jump down, things like that where… You know, most owners might not be mindful of those things, but how important they could be.

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah, you're speaking my love language right now by not letting your dog jump out of the kennel or jump off the back of the tailgate. Jumping up is not as dangerous or detrimental, but certainly jumping down, especially as puppies. But we, there's actually a syndrome in, and it started, was first identified in Labradors called jump down syndrome. And they fracture off a little tiny piece of their elbow And then it's like a little, almost like the, like if you remember the old fairy tale about the pea in the mattress for the princess, you know, and just irritating. So it's like a little pea in the mattress of their elbow joint and can really be debilitating for them. And it's like, all you had to do was not let your dog jump out of the tailgate a million times. So thank you for bringing that up. I didn't even cue you on that one. You know, but certainly, yeah, keeping those sessions short. And I know, like, I'm living and breathing having a puppy for the first time in 20 years because we got Finn as a two and a half year old. And they need something to do, right? So that they make good choices and they don't chew your baseboards and your shoes. All of that noise. So, you know, certainly balancing their physical activity with their mental activity. It is really easy to, you know, tire them out from a mental standpoint, you know, by making them play little games, you know, whether that's, you know, hunt them up and have kibble hidden, you know, things like that. There's all kinds of things. And they, you know, we estimate that about a 10-minute session of some sort of mental enrichment is worth about 30 to 45 minutes of physical activity. So, it can have the same beneficial effect. I would also say keeping those sessions, those physical training sessions short. So, you know, 10 minutes, you know, and doing more short sessions spaced out versus one 30-minute all-in kind of hardcore sort of thing. So, from an activity standpoint, I'm a big fan of letting them run along with you, but at their own like off leash. So, when they're not skeletally developed to their full potential and you have just that repetitive motion of like running alongside you on a leash for… you know, two or three or five miles. Um, you know, that just bangs and bangs their growth plates. Um, but if you are going on a, say you're going on a three-mile hike, you know, and they are, you know, they're six or seven months old, having them run along with you and they're, you know… At their own pace.

Matthew Harrison: Yeah, at their own pace.

RuthAnn Lobos: So they can sprint up and then they can stop and sniff and then they can sprint up and, you know, and then they can, you know, twist and turn and do those sorts of things.

Matthew Harrison: Instead of that repetitive just… Yep.

RuthAnn Lobos: Pounding. Yep. Yep.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah, that's really interesting. I've always found the best time to do that too is around feeding time, right? I mean, they're all excited about it. You can just grab a few extra pieces of what you're going to feed them and do a little mental training. My friends always used to say that work the mind and the body will follow. And I think that's so true. What are some of the most important things for puppies, because there's a big tie between socialization, stress response as an adult, right? And those things, whether they're textures, all sorts of things that can throw a puppy off. What are some of the big things that you think, for our audience specifically, waterfowl hunters, that's important to introduce a puppy to during those first six months?

RuthAnn Lobos: Sure. So I will not profess to be a professional dog trainer, but I can speak from the veterinary side of things and just my lifetime of practice. But I think it's the way I talk to my clients about it is like, whatever you want them to be okay with as adults, you need to expose them to that and make it a positive experience when they're a puppy. So their brain kind of solidifies around like four or five months and that's when they're like, okay, so this is my normal, right? But also we know that things get ingrained in their brain when there's a positive experience related to it versus, you know, kind of old school, we always used to be like, you know, tell them no and put, push their, you know, put their nose. I mean, I can remember my dad doing this with our dog as a, as a kid of like taking Wags's nose and like rubbing it in her pee. And I'm like, and trying to like enforce that she shouldn't pee in the house. And you're like, but now, like, I mean, we've seen studies time and time again, that it's you teach them what to, you know, and make that that positive learning experience. And that solidifies in their brain much stronger than that, you know, severe correction. So, you know, so I, you know, I'm like, start, it can be starting simple, right? When we look at, like, we have a Roomba, well, Alexander named her Cleaner Swift after Taylor. And so, you know, but like, you know, so when Journey was a puppy, like, we just, like, started the, you know, started cleaner around and like I had little, you know, I had some of her kibble there and was just feeding her little treats as, you know, as the vacuum is going around so that it's like, oh, it's just the vacuum. Desensitizing.

Nathan Ratchford: Exactly.

RuthAnn Lobos: Exactly. And I, you know, we did go, I did take her to and work with an obedience trainer when she was a puppy. And she was like, just, you know, you impersonate Mr. Rogers and you just kind of name it and say, we don't need to react to that. And so, I mean, it sounds so silly and I hear myself doing it all the time now, where I'm like, oh, that's just the garbage truck. It's no concern to us.

Nathan Ratchford: It's background, right?

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah. So, I mean, those little things, I think about, again, I'm not a professional trainer, nor will I profess to be. You can ask Carl Gunzer the next time we have a Purina dual podcast together or something. But that water introduction, right? So important, especially for waterfowl hunters, and making that a positive experience. And if you were not sure how to do that, in a positive way for your dog, don't. Like, reach out, get some help, get talked to. I mean, there's all kinds of information online and, you know, in most areas with just a tiny bit of research, you can find somebody to help you with that because it's real easy to blow them up, both intro to gunfire and intro to water. And you can, it's a hard hill to climb back up.

Nathan Ratchford: What have been some of your biggest lessons with Journey? Now she's just over a year old. You got a puppy of your own. What have been your biggest things that you've learned from her?

RuthAnn Lobos: That I do not have enough patience. It was already questionable as it was, but it has been interesting. She was away for about four months, training up at the Dawkins, but I would say what I've learned time and time again with her is that when she's doing something that is frustrating to me, if I get frustrated and my voice gets louder or my body language gets tenser, It doesn't make her response any better. And so like that's also something I, you know, I try to reinforce is like staying calm, staying quiet. I had a friend who is a child psychologist and she's like, if you ever want kids to actually listen to you, start whispering. And then all of a sudden everybody wants to know what you're whispering about.

Matthew Harrison: attention.

RuthAnn Lobos: And so I'm like, oh, that's actually, that also translates into the dog world, right? Of like, if we stay quiet and calm, that is more likely to get the response that we want instead of yelling angrily. Not that I would ever do that.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah, no, that's so true. A while back, I saw some sort of study that was, I think they did it on National Geographic, but they showed, they brought in a bunch of dogs and they had a human voice playing on the background. They had two visual markers side by side on big screens for the dogs, and one of them matched you know, the facial expression matched the voice, right? So it was an angry person or someone who was laughing. And the dogs almost completely reliably matched the voice with the facial cue. And they went on to say that they're the only other mammal other than an actual chimpanzee who was capable of that. And it just goes to show you how closely they've evolved with us, how intuitive they are with those things, and how maintaining calm composure, just letting them be puppies, just goes a long way. All right. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Lobos, for joining us here at National Headquarters. If people want to follow along and learn more about sporting dog medicine and follow you, where can they find you?

RuthAnn Lobos: Yeah, so they can find me on the gram. It's at PetVetRuthAnn.

Nathan Ratchford: Awesome. And if you want to find out more about sporting dog nutrition, check out Purina.com. Thank you so much for tuning in today. I'm your host, Nathan Ratchford, Matt Harrison, and be sure to follow along in the upcoming weeks for our Sporting Dog Month, and be sure to check your mailboxes. The sporting dog issue of Ducks Unlimited Magazine will be hitting soon. Thank you so much for tuning in.