Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Jared Henson: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm Dr. Jared Henson. I'm going to be your host today. I'm joined again by co-host Nathan Ratchford. Nathan, thanks for being here. Absolutely. And again, we're jumping back into some retriever safety. This is going to be part two of that episode, part one. Take a listen on that. We jumped into kind of some summer heat safety, things like that that you should be concerned with. And our special guest from that episode is with us back for part two, Dr. Jason Robinson. Thanks for joining us in the Ducks Unlimited studio. Thank you for having me. So, we started off that first one, like I mentioned, kind of going into this, how to be safe with heat, with summer training, snakes, all of that type stuff. This part, we're going to kind of shift gears a little, move more into field season, right? Not field trials, but field season, hunting, different suite of problems to run into. Temperature things. Cold weather stuff. Yeah, a lot of that. So I think we're going to just jump into it from here. We'll kind of start off a little bit with some injuries. What are the most common injuries you see in hunting dogs?

Jason Robinson: So, you know, especially with the, you know, starting duck season anyway, probably the most common ones I see, you kind of, one category you'd kind of lump into, you know, soft tissue injuries that would be, you know, something you consider anything from like strain or sprain to kind of more serious you know, ligament tear injuries. You know, certainly in, you know, my dogs that are hunting in, you know, soybean fields or rice fields, you get a lot of paw abscesses because that stubble will stick into the bottom of the paw. The water is not clean, there's bacteria, and you get nice paw abscesses. And, you know, you see limber tail too. I want to back up on those, Doc.

Nathan Ratchford: the soft tissue injuries. Let's talk a little bit about why, right? Why that occurs, why you see that so frequently, and then how we go about addressing that if it does, right? I mean, I know that's going to vary with soft tissue injuries, so we don't need to go into the weeds there on, you know, after the fact, but just so people know, you know, what they might do to prevent it. And then if it happens, are they laid up for the season or, you know, what comes after?

Jason Robinson: Right. So, we're kind of asking these athletes to be in this high-impact sport. So, going into the season, you know, can you prevent all of these soft tissue injuries? You can't. But, having said that, you know, having an in-shape athlete, they're less likely to injure themselves. And so leading up to the season, that training doesn't just start a month before. You're swimming them a bunch. You're running a bunch of marks and things like that. And I think weight can play a lot into that.

Jared Henson: Yeah, I've noticed that with my dogs, is that weight, being careful, making sure that you pay attention to nutrition and maintain a healthy weight can go a long ways, not just on soft injury issues, but arthritis down the road, things like that are big things that I've noticed, especially with labs. They're notorious for it, so.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, yeah, high impact, you know, sport like that, that is gonna always be a player, yep, down the road.

Nathan Ratchford: And would you say that those those injuries tend to lay the dogs up for the longest compared to some of these others that you went through?

Jason Robinson: It kind of depends. It kind of depends on, you know, severity of the injury. You know, was it a ligament tear? You know, that's, you know, that's a surgical fix and that's that you're three to six months before you're back in action. Some of the other ones, you know, you're talking about like anti-inflammatories and rests and, you know, there's even some icing and heating and, you know, types of physical therapy stuff that you can do to kind of facilitate them getting back in action again sooner.

Nathan Ratchford: And for the paws like prevention can you toughen them up kind of before the season maybe with some you know just making sure I mean I know at least in my dogs it was most noticeable going in the winter but like there's definitely a spectrum there you know with dogs and their paws like some dogs out in Arizona man they just seem like they're so tough that you know even cactus you know it doesn't bother them nearly as much or penetrate. I don't know exactly how that goes, but can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah, not having a tender foot, right?

Jason Robinson: But, you know, the paw abscesses, there's not really anything you can do to stop that one. That's, you know, as soon as you see some swelling and you hunt in a field, that's, you know, go to the veterinarian. I do, you know, you should always do a tailgate check, right? When you get out of a field and stuff like that. And if you see, you know, I literally had a lab, this wasn't even in a field, it was, you know, we were hunting in like a buck brush situation. Stick right through the paw and like the dog didn't tell anybody and I literally was like, okay. Well, we're gonna pull that out, flush that out, and get on some antibiotics. But toughening up the pads is a different situation. And, you know, doing things as simple as, you know, walking them on the sidewalk, you know, short bumper retrieves on the sidewalk and things like that, continually, you know, through the year, not only helps with the pads, but also kind of keeping their nails filed down. But don't get them out on hot asphalt in the summer. Right.

Jared Henson: Because you can, they can burn their pads.

Jason Robinson: Right, right, right. Not much sprinting either because you don't want to like tear pads. You can deglove a pad that way, but consistent motion work, walking them and stuff like that will go a long way to toughen up the pads themselves.

Jared Henson: Not necessarily retrievers, but my grandfather used to train bird dogs, quail dogs, and one of the first times they actually took some trips down to Texas or also into the Arkansas River Basin and that real sandy ground. It's the first time they ever really got into sand burrs. And that got in between their pads on some of his bird dogs. He didn't, that was his first time to ever be exposed to that. He actually lost a dog to an abscess. They didn't catch it early enough. They didn't know to look for it. Very different. So, things like that. Just being aware. Again, know your dog. And know your dog. If your dog's acting weird or favoring a paw, even a little, give it a once over.

Nathan Ratchford: Another thing I always look for, but I spend a lot of time, you know, in the field, too, is mean seeds. You know, especially on any soft tissue, but paws, they're the least visible, right? Checking for those, always to your point, good tailgate check is just key, I think.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, and if you're hunting in a spot and you know, you're a field hunter, you know, you're And you got a swollen paw, let's get to the vet and go ahead and see if they can get any debris out of that, you know, start antibiotics as soon as possible to prevent, you know, a real bad abscess where you have like a rupture situation.

Jared Henson: Yeah, you don't want your blood to be taken out of the game for longer than they have to, right?

Nathan Ratchford: How about limber tail? Is there anything you could do before?

Jason Robinson: Well, so limber tail is, you're straining the muscles that support, you know, motion of the tail. I don't know that there's a 100% effective way to prevent it, having said that. Most of the time, it's a dog that is going out for the first time in the season, or it's just a really good beginning of the season, cold water, lots of retrieves. And so that being said, Always going back to training and making sure you're in shape going into a season. I think that the more swimming drills that you're getting in before that season starts, the less likely you are to encounter that injury. Once you get it, it's not the end of the season. you still have to go to, you know, your veterinary clinic. And, you know, what I do when I see them, you know, it starts with like five to seven days of rest. It's painful. You know, you can lift up their tail and they say, ouch. Yeah. And they always, they kind of, the signs of it, they kind of carry the tail. It's just, it's just, people call it limbo tail. It just kind of hangs. And they don't wag. And they'll just kind of hang there. And so, it's painful. So, I'll start with like a pain medication. you know, an anti-inflammatory, the pain medication just for, you know, a couple few days. Anti-inflammatory, I'll go like a week, week and a half, just because, you know, if you're gonna take off like five to seven days, you're gonna, right when you get back into it, I don't want to re-injure it. You know, have like an anti-inflammatory on board so the dog's comfortable.

Jared Henson: And so, other than, I was kind of saying this earlier, but so, Bent Tail, Kennel Tail, Coldwater Tail, all these different names. It's the same thing. It just really hangs and they don't wag it. And I made the mistake, my lab got it pretty bad a few times, but the worst time, he was pretty well trained. But we were doing lots of field barks and blinds, things like that. We go out to duck hunt the first day and he goes, and he has a fantastic day. I mean, he picks up like 20-something ducks. Big day retrieving. And it's all deep water retrievers. Yeah, swimming. All swimming at minimum 30 yards, swim, back. And so, yeah, that was a shell shock to his system. My fault for not preparing him for it. But understand the situation you're going to put your dog into, right? That's something that we can do to help that out. Yeah, preseason training. And accurate training for what you're going to be putting that dog into.

Nathan Ratchford: Don't go swimming at 80 in anything you do, right? You're talking about soft tissue. build them up, make sure they're in condition. Same thing with swimming, right? I mean, good prevention ahead of going into the season.

Jared Henson: Are some dogs just more prone to it?

Jason Robinson: You know, you primarily see it in, you know, maybe Labradors, but Labradors are also a very popular breed to hunt with, so that probably has more to play into why you see it in Labradors than other breeds, to be honest with you.

Nathan Ratchford: What are some essential things, I mean, given what a hunter might encounter out in the field, what's most likely, what are some things that they should have in a field medical kit? Like a first aid kit? Yeah.

Jason Robinson: So, actually, I made up a little list because, you know, I'm a list guy, you know, I'm gonna check all the boxes, make sure if I use it up, check the box, I got to put it back in. But, you know, at the top of that list, I'll start with something that's a newer medication. And something that most people don't think about, but, you know, when you're going in a hunting situation, sometimes you're staying at a farmhouse or a lodge that you're not familiar with and there might be some rat bait or like something that's toxic out there and your dog gets a hold of it. You want them to, you know, the key principle there is get it out before it has a chance to absorb. There's a new product called Clever, and it's Ropinerol, and it causes, you can induce vomiting just by doing eye drops. And so based on your dog's weight, how many drops it gets, and it says it on the package insert. And, you know, I've been in a lot of situations, you know, where dogs have gotten into something and you got to get them to, you know, throw it up so that they don't absorb it and get the LD50 dose. But that's one thing that I would have in a first aid kit. 30 ml syringe, flushing out eyes, flushing out a wound, something like that. Saline would be another thing that I would have for that flushing process. You know, blood sugar situations, K-Rose syrup is a good thing to have, you know, in a small little bottle if you can put it in a little container with it. You can also get, you know, 50% dextrose from like your cattle feed stores and stuff like that and, you know, 5ml volume of that or a small, you know, small volume of that 30ml syringe if they're having low blood sugar problems. Neosporin is another one I keep and, you know, put that into a wound if they get a laceration or something like that. And on that laceration aspect, you know, Coban, which is kind of like a stretchy, you know, adherent wrap, and 4x4 gauze. So, you know, if they get that laceration, you know, pack it with some neosporin, gauze over it, wrap it, get to the vet so they can, you know, closing fresh wound edges is better than seeing them a couple days later. That's a longer time to heal and more difficult on the dog. I'd put a multi-tool in there, that's always handy to have. Pepsodacy and famotidine for multiple reasons, Pepsodacy and Benadryl for multiple reasons, but upset tummy, Pepsodacy and try to get to the vet. You start seeing hives or something like that, allergic reaction, Benadryl. A pair of scissors. Q-tips, hunting dogs in fields, maybe CRP and stuff like that, they might get some seeds in their eyes or in their eyelids. Running some saline underneath that eyelid, tops of the eyelids, and then roll that Q-tip behind the third eyelid, the one that comes up. Pull it out and you'll grab seeds that otherwise could scratch a dog's eye. A thermometer, hypothermia or heat stroke in them. Um, and then, you know, you hope you don't ever need it, but an emergency like Mylar thermal blanket, you know, hopefully you don't fall in the water and need it. And hopefully your dog never gets cold enough to need it, but that's a pretty broad encompassing, you know, kit. You might not be able to fit all of that into a blind bag, but you know, something that keeping in the truck or at your duck camp or something like that, for sure.

Nathan Ratchford: How about for the hunters who are traveling out west or along roads ahead of them this season and their dogs, they get stressed during travel? Probiotic or anything in the event that their digestion goes further south?

Jason Robinson: Great question. Consulting your veterinarian because they're gonna know your dog's GI tract best, especially. But there's definitely good probiotics out there that you can give just preemptively, you know. Or maybe like even stress medications that you might give for driving. Some dogs just don't like it. Some dogs love it, you know. And then, you know, there's some other situations where you're like, hey, I know There's going to be some Giardia where I'm getting into and you would talk to your veterinarian about appropriate medications for that. And there's also some non-antimicrobial medications that you can use to keep their stool firm, their GI tract happy, not necessarily probiotics. They're more things that kind of absorb water and decrease inflammation in the intestines.

Nathan Ratchford: While we're on the subject here of just traveling with your dog while you're hunting, should hunters make sure that wherever they're going, they know where an emergency vet or is that, you know, nearby? Is that a good precaution to take if you're going to hit the road?

Jason Robinson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you, if you're going to a destination and you're not familiar with the area, you know, knowing where the nearest emergency vet is would definitely be something that I'd keep on, you know, easy to download into contacts, you know, you know, knowing your veterinary well enough to call them, you know, also helps. Uh, but, uh, you know, if you're going, you're like, you're saying cross country or something like that, you know, When you're getting there, you know, you're always looking up where you're gonna stay, where you're gonna eat. Might as well have in your phone where the local emergency vet is, just in case.

Nathan Ratchford: Especially if you don't have service, right? When you're out in the field, just doing that in advance is always a good precaution. Absolutely. You know which direction to go.

Jared Henson: Yeah, exactly. What about, and you know, you hear this and you read this in other first aid kits and things like that. A lot of times people will say even things like staplers and things for other wound care. Maybe not necessary and probably one of those things that, you know, don't use if you don't know how to use it. Exactly right.

Jason Robinson: So go and get like a training course and there's veterinarians that will do this. Because there's some wounds that if you're trained appropriately, you should close, but you should still go to the vet. But there's some wounds that you don't, because you're going to trap some bacteria in there that love the fact that oxygen is not getting in there. Anaerobic bacteria. And then you just… closed the hole but made yourself a nasty abscess, you know, or an infected wound. So, that's why I kind of like packing it with like some Neosporin, wrapping it, keeping the wound moist and things like that, and then get to the vet and let them primarily close it and make sure there's not some deep pocket going somewhere. But yeah, you know, if you're trained to do, you know, been trained by veterinary personnel to do it, then you know, there's certain situations way out in the middle of nowhere where, you know, you may have to close it, but I would, I would get that training first.

Jared Henson: Right. Yeah. I bring that up because you see those, those types of instruments and tools in some first aid kits, but you didn't mention it. So I wanted to kind of say, but again, make sure you know what you're doing first. Right. Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford: Jared, do you want to go on to cold weather, or do you have any other questions?

Jared Henson: Actually, I will kind of back up just a little, and I may open a small can of worms on this question, because y'all are talking about travel. How should you transport your dog?

Jason Robinson: Weather dependent, right? Right.

Jared Henson: I guess the segues into, if we're good on that road. Just from a safety standpoint, before you go to weather, probably shouldn't always have them riding in the front seat.

Jason Robinson: I usually kennel my dog in a kennel crate and I'm going to use some of the tougher kennel crates if it's going to be outside the cab and make sure it's ratcheted down. But even though I have an SUV, I like for my dog to ride in the kennel because if I have a wreck, He's going to be bouncing around if he's not in that kennel. Or if something stresses him, spooks him, whatever, I don't need him in my lap while I'm going, you know, 70 down the interstate. Right.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah. That's a big concern for me always, just because I've heard so many stories. Dogs going through the windshield.

Jared Henson: We had a co-worker that lost a dog recently.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah, it was tragic.

Jared Henson: It was a nasty wreck. And that's, yeah, it was absolutely tragic. So yeah, now we can go into that cold weather, the weather-dependent aspects of how you should transport your dog.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, so, you know, if they're inside, you know, inside your, in your truck or whatever, you know, that, you know, keeping them confined and kind of just talked about in a kennel crate is a good idea. Outside, you know, I would pick a kennel crate where they're, you know, they're shown to be a little bit more insulated or at least have a kennel cover around it. Those are kind of some factors for cold weather travel that I would make sure I take into consideration.

Jared Henson: And on the flip side, we're not really talking as much about the heat side now, but I don't think we addressed it in the last one. So, well-ventilated, right? If you're transporting in warm air.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, well-ventilated and that cold water. Ice in the water bottle, feeding the mice cubes, all those things are… Can help with that. Yeah, help with heat.

Jared Henson: If you can put them inside the truck with you, and if you've got an SUV, that's probably a lot better, especially if it's real hot outside.

Nathan Ratchford: That's more ideal, yeah. Yeah, I've seen some really cool videos actually showing that temperature change when they're in a really good, kind of like a gunner, you know? And they have fans and things like that, too. Really insulated, yeah, and the temperature difference from the outside inside, both in The summer, having a cooler in the kennel, especially with the fan system, but also in the winter, the dog's body temperature heats it up inside and it keeps that heat in there. Insulation.

Jason Robinson: Yeah.

Nathan Ratchford: And I mean, I've seen videos where dogs actually, they open up and dog's been wet and you see steam. I mean, it's the middle of the winter. It's just incredible, you know, the technology on those kennels.

Jared Henson: Now I'm done. Now we can move on. I think that brings us on to that next topic. Cold weather safety, right? So we talked about in a car, in a kennel, but I mean, we're hunting these dogs in extreme environments a lot of times, right? It's cold. Especially up north.

Nathan Ratchford: Not a nice day. Definition of cold down here when I move down here is a little different, but… We get to zero.

Jared Henson: I think negative one the past year and zero a couple of times the past years. That's way too cold for us. Don't get me wrong. I'm very thin skinned. When it hits single digits, I'm cold. I'm back out. I'm out there. Don't get me wrong, but I'm cold.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, not nice days when you go duck hunting. You want the nasty days. That's when the ducks are out. Oh, yeah.

Jared Henson: Yep. That's when it's good. So, key signs for hypothermia. What are the things to really look for on your dog in those situations?

Jason Robinson: So, you know, you'll first, you know, obviously dogs will shiver, you know, and that shivering and shaking, they're trying to generate body heat. But where it truly starts to set in and you see maybe I'm getting kind of a little danger zone area, Those dogs that, again, high prey drive. They love their job, and so their nonverbal communications, their body posture is up like this. Their heads, you know, if they're in a blind, it's looking out of the hole. If they're in the pit, they're looking around like that. When they stop doing that and they kind of withdraw back in, you know, they'll start to kind of curl up and stuff like that. That's like your first sign, maybe this, maybe we're getting a little cold. Um, and then, you know, if it gets a little too far, the gum colors, pale or blue, um, they're lethargic. They're not really getting responsive. They basically kind of shut down.

Jared Henson: Yeah.

Jason Robinson: I've had a dog do that. And so, you know, that's, that's get them dry, you know, get him a car, turn on the heater, go ahead and call it.

Jared Henson: It surprised me when I had it because it was it was cold, but it wasn't like too cold It just and the dog is just I don't know what it was about that one day the long retrieve chasing a cripple. Mm-hmm took off and and Came back and he made it about I don't know, 30 yards from me? And he just crawled up on like his front legs on a log and just he was there. Yeah. And I was like, hmm, that's not good. So I run, get him, pick him up, get him out of the water, and we're a long way from anywhere. And the good news was the sun had come up and it was warming up real fast. So I spun the dog stand around on the sunny side of the tree. moved him up in a sunny spot and set him on there. And he, he warmed up pretty quick. I mean, it was, but the water was cold.

Jason Robinson: Yes.

Jared Henson: And time in the water too.

Jason Robinson: So, right. Yeah.

Jared Henson: That was what got to him after a while. And after that, we were much more careful about, about it, but it's a scary situation. Yeah. You don't want to see that.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah, that's a great point, Jason. Like, time in the water, right? Especially if you have a day where there's an opportunity to take another dog, right? And you got a big group, rotating them out, things like that. You know, acclimation, as you mentioned, that's the biggest thing. What else can we do to keep them warm in there? What else? Vests? I'm a big fan of vests.

Jason Robinson: You know, if you've ever, like, taken off your glove and kind of run it up in the armpit of that vest, you can tell it's so much warmer. It'll almost be dry, even though they're wet.

Jared Henson: It's weird.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, I mean, you know, and that's around the core, so, you know, I really like vests in that situation. You know, if you're, kind of depends on the spot that you're hunting in, You know, if you're sitting in kind of a dog stand situation, you know, having one of those dog blinds, so there's something that's kind of keeping them one out of the wind and holding some of their body heat around them. You know, if you can hunt in a blind, you're getting them up out of the water. I have a little bit of both of those situations, but, you know, hunting out of a blind when it's real, real cold because I don't always want to stand in the water either. But, you know, I have a little portable heater that I bring for my son and, you know, and the dog on real cold days. I don't usually bring my son. He's too young still on the real cold days. I don't put it right up next to him because I don't want to burn him, but I move it like a safe distance back and point at his direction, and he doesn't seem to mind it. He gets out and shakes, and he knows what it is. I noticed that he keeps his head out of that blind hole a lot better. It's hitting him right here in his rib area, core body. I'm warm, and I'm wanting to pay attention and get out there. You know, those couple things, if they've, you know, getting them out of the water, trying to get them dry as you can, you know, keeping a vest on them, keeping a heater on them, you know, having a dog stand so they're out of the water, those are some key things I would think would be helpful. How… I see this question all the time, but how cold is too cold? Climatization is kind of important, right? Because somebody from Minnesota is not gonna think our winters are cold. Also, their dogs are gonna have a different expectation of what cold is than our dogs are. Time in that water, because that's gonna be a real key factor into how cold they get. And you can't just… Take a dog that's been in a heated house and then just go take them hunting. You need to train them through the season and take them on hunts, you know, because they're getting acclimatized during the season as it gets colder. Also, you know, they're building up their coat thickness. You know, I don't wash my dog with soap after October. I make sure that coat is super oily. Nutrition plays a big role in that and how cold they can tolerate, you know. You know, pre- and pro-plant has like a 30-20, you know, protein-fat content. And you need that higher fat content because, I mean, they're… Think about it. They're shivering. They're swimming. You know, they're doing a whole bunch of exercise. How many calories are burning? And, you know, so… All that kind of plays a factor into, you know, I've got a good solid coat, you know, I've got a lot of calories to burn, and then temperature is somewhat variable, you know. You know, hunting below like 20 degrees, you know, that's not going to be fun. You know, that's and there's lots of ice in that situation, which is going back to soft tissue injuries. You know, that's how you'll see some of those. So that's where, that's kind of where I'd be careful. You know, have I hunted at like 25 to 30? Made it a short day. You know, didn't keep my dog exposed to the water for too long.

Jared Henson: And if you've got, like I've had some issues too with my dog and those situations where 25 degrees, we're flirting with that line, but all of a sudden the wind shifts out of the north and it starts blowing 20 miles an hour and it gets noticeably colder real fast. I can tell my dog had, you know, that effect. And so, so paying attention to that too. Yeah, that's something to definitely do. And I think kind of that acclimation aspect you're talking about. One thing's really important is 30, 40 years ago, most hunting dogs sat in the dog pen in the backyard, right?

Jason Robinson: Outside dogs, no one else.

Jared Henson: But pretty sure most people here, their dog is in the house, on the couch, or in the bed, right? And so that makes, that's harder for the dog to go from the couch to ice water. And get comfortable with that. So be aware of that. Don't have that outside dog expectation for your dog if your dog sleeps in the bed with you. Know your dog well. Understand kind of what you're asking it to do. I think that's important to do.

Nathan Ratchford: And every dog is different too, right? I mean, not just, I see it all the time with emphasis on coat and coat matters, but big hundred pound Chesapeake Bay Retriever is going to handle that cold water a lot better than a 40-pound British Lab female, regardless of coat, right? Body mass and fat matters, right? Keeps them warm and insulated, you know? So yeah, it's a lot of factors to weigh out when you decide to go out on a cold morning.

Jared Henson: Train for the situation, acclimate your dog, and know your dog. Understand, because I think those are things you should really pay attention to. Any other

Nathan Ratchford: tips or tactics for cold, like, keeping your dog? One thing I did want to circle back, I know we talked about it on the last episode, but we talked a little bit about nutrition, but when is the best time, you know, a lot of people ask, should I feed my dog in the morning, right? And I guess that That depends too, right? What are your general guidelines, recommendations for feeding the dog so they have the best available energy, but they also avoid things like bloat or some serious things that may come out?

Jason Robinson: Yeah, so great question. Finding a reputable ration, balanced ration, you know, high-protein, high-fat content. You know, I use the example of, you know, Pruner ProPlans 3020. You know, my own dog, I don't feed him before we go hunt that morning. You know, I think you just, you don't get good absorption of whatever you put in there. and you're going to rattle that stuff around in the GI tract, which afterwards you have to clean up. So, you know, feeding them the night before, they're going to assimilate all that energy from the ration the night before. Do I feed them after the hunt, after they've calmed down, to avoid bloat, like you're talking about? Yes, I do. You know, and I kind of split the ration in two that day, half, you know, an hour after they're done hunting and calm down, and then, you know, later on that evening, the next half of the ration, so that they're There's not food on their belly when they're getting out there and hunting. Purina does a good job of kind of tailor-making. A 30-20 may not be appropriate for your weekend warrior as it is for your guide. you know, retriever. You know, those dogs are out there picking up birds day in day out versus, you know, you got a dog that's just going on the weekends or twice a month or something like that. And so, they have, you know, a 27-16 instead of a 30-20 protein-fat ratio. So, you know, they don't need as much fat. Going back to soft tissue injuries, staying, you know, not… You don't want an overweight dog. Yeah. So, balance, you know, balance ration. And, you know, appropriate protein fat content.

Jared Henson: And just to reiterate, most people know this, but what does a healthy retriever look like? Like, like healthy weight retriever, like… Yeah, so… Because people argue over this and my wife and I argued over this at the beginning, right? And so trying to explain healthy weight versus…

Jason Robinson: Yeah, so you talk about like a body condition score. You know, you go into any vet's office, you know, anywhere and they're gonna have like a little chart on the wall that shows different images of dogs. Yeah. And kind of the ideal number on that body condition score You have kind of that hour, if you look from the top of the dog, they kind of have an hourglass figure. Ribs stick out farther than the waist, hips stick out farther than the waist. And then when you're looking at them from the side, you know, kind of where the bottom of their rib cage is, bottom of their chest, it should go kind of like the hypotenuse of a right triangle going back towards their waist. You don't want it like straight across like a barrel. You know, they, you know, having that angle going back, you know, they're not carrying too much weight.

Jared Henson: And you might see a little bit of ribs, not too much rib, but like you can see a little rib definition. And that was… Especially the last one. I bring that up because my wife and I had this discussion a lot. She thought that I was underfeeding our dog. Oh, my goodness. But we finally got to a spot where she realized he was fine.

Nathan Ratchford: Labs are like that. They'll look at you and they're, oh, no, shoot. Oh, yeah.

Jason Robinson: Oh, they'll put dog hypnosis on you and get the food out of the bag.

Nathan Ratchford: Second breakfast. Yeah.

Jared Henson: Third lunch. And kids, they learn how to really manipulate a toddler.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah.

Jared Henson: Yeah.

Jason Robinson: Kids are like food dispensers, just like dropping it off their plate on the floor.

Nathan Ratchford: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

Jared Henson: That's that extra food.

Nathan Ratchford: And at the same time, making sure that they have, to your point about rations, making sure if they're being worked really hard, increase that food a little bit more, even if it's beyond the recommendations, right?

Jason Robinson: Yeah. Smaller, frequent, but not necessarily like increased ration size per meal. So add another meal into the day is kind of a safe way to do that.

Jared Henson: Gotcha. That's a good tip right there. People can argue over table food or not.

Jason Robinson: I would stay away from it, just kind of a blanket statement. I mean, that's, you know, not only do you get dogs that you can't tell, they're looking at their dog food and they're like, I'm gonna wait for that pizza to come out of the oven, you know, or whatever. more acutely where when they get ill because first thing dogs do when they get sick usually stop eating.

Jared Henson: Yeah I just I brought that up because like after a really hard hunt some days if we're eating a good breakfast or lunch sometimes the dog would get some leftovers.

Jason Robinson: Yeah sure.

Jared Henson: After they've cooled down things like that. A little piece of biscuit. Good job.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah. Thanksgiving all bets are off.

Jared Henson: Yeah. So. I'm a realist. Yeah I understand. You worked hard buddy here you go. Well, I mean, I think this was a great kind of overview of a lot of the field aspects and hunting aspects of retriever safety that people need to be aware of. Is there anything else y'all really want to note? Any tips or pointers? That we could cover a lot?

Jason Robinson: Yeah.

Jared Henson: I think so.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, kind of getting into the season in shape is one of the keys to success, I would say. That's a big thing, yeah.

Jared Henson: And prevention, right? Be aware of prevention. So whether it's fitness, whether it's acclimating your dog, being aware of the water you put them into, make sure your nutrition's up to date, just be in tune with that stuff and on top of it on the front end, not at the end. And don't expect your dog to be a endurance athlete if you did no training.

Nathan Ratchford: If you didn't do the training. I think that that's been the biggest takeaway is and in all most of these injuries that we talked about a lot of it comes down to dogs fitness going into the season. You can't just expect to go off the couch and same thing for us we need to hit the clay range you know a couple times before we expect a hiking trail or something. Yeah.

Jared Henson: There's nothing to let you know you're out of shape, like hitting a rice field and waiters from the couch. Yeah. Yeah. You go, oh yeah, I'm not in shape.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah. It's not the same thing as watching DUTV.

Jared Henson: It's not. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Gotta actually move. Well, Nathan, Jason, thank y'all for joining me today. Thank y'all for having me. It's been a really fun podcast. Thanks again to Chris Isaac, our producer over here for the podcast. And thank you to the listeners for listening, and hopefully y'all enjoyed this episode, learned a little bit. Tune back in, see what we've got coming up for next time on the Ducks Unlimited podcast. See y'all.