Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Jason Robinson: Hey everybody, welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm Dr. Jared Henson, and I'm going to be your host today. I am joined in studio by co-host Nathan Ratchford. Thanks for being here, Nathan. Absolutely, Jared. Love talking dogs, you know that. Yeah, and that brings us to our topic for today, and actually it's going to be a little short series. We've got a couple episodes we're going to throw at you on some retriever safety. We're going to start off with part one. It's going to be more about summer safety. And then part two, we're going to lead into more field or winter safety kind of ideas. And to go into this, we have Dr. Jason Robinson with us. He's a local veterinarian, a diehard duck hunter. And I know that. He's out of Arlington Animal Clinic. And so, we're real happy to have you on here, Jason. Nathan Jarrett, thanks for having me. Yeah. Can you tell us, and since it's your first time to be on here, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what brought you into kind of the retriever world, what brought you to duck hunting, kind of?

Jason Robinson: Yeah, absolutely. You know, probably one of my first, you know, allowance jobs as a kid was taking care of my dad's Chesapeake and, you know, forming a bond there early on. you know, getting my own golden retriever, you know, in high school and doing some, you know, field trial stuff with him. And it kind of, you know, combined with, you know, science, it's kind of the only thing I'm really good at at all in the world. But that kind of led me to, you know, understanding how important that bond is and kind of the career I'm in today.

Jerad Henson: Yeah, well, we're glad to have you. And I've known Dr. Jason for a while. When I first moved to Memphis, I had a lab, a hunting dog, and was looking for a veterinarian that understood people who actually use their dogs to hunt. And Jason was someone I met, and he was like, oh yeah, man, things happen. These dogs are different from just a pet. It's a working dog. And really helped me kind of understand that, and I really appreciated that. And he took fantastic care of those dogs. So I thank him for that.

Jason Robinson: Thanks for the kind words.

Jerad Henson: So kind of starting off, I think we'll jump into kind of these summer safety ideas and get a good idea for the big topics. We're not going to go into too much of the nitty gritty. I don't know that we got time for that, but some of the big stuff we want to talk about today on this first one is kind of talking about summer. So a lot of things around heat, animals and such. So first thing I think we want to talk about, heat and hydration. And Nathan, you want to pitch that question a little bit?

Nathan Ratchford: Well, it's something that I'm really concerned about moving from Pennsylvania down to the southern United States. And last summer, being my first summer here, I feel like I didn't have a great handle on it. So I'm really, really interested in this subject area in particular. Dr. Jason, where do we begin? What are some general guidances on temperature? What time of year? You know, and what temperature is okay to be working a dog out there in the field.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, so in the South, it's hot the whole summer. You know, moving from Pennsylvania to here, I can't imagine. But, you know, it's kind of a good, honestly, lead-in, because I think acclimation to temperature is as important as the temperature is that day. Sure, there's old school rules about temperature plus humidity percentage, and if it's over 140, 150, it's not a good day. But for me, it's don't take a dog that's out of shape and start training it in July. After the season's over, you know, train all the way through the spring, get the dogs staying in shape, getting used to that temperature elevation while they're exercising. And sure, you know, where I'm comfortable training at, you know, probably my cutoff point is 85, 90 degrees. So, I'm going to train around like 80 degrees. but there's some pretty strict things that I'm going to stick to when I do that. You know, number one is, you know, early in the morning before that sun ball gets up and can heat things up. I'm also going to make training sessions somewhat short, and then I'm going to stick to water retrieves during the summertime. And, you know, probably something that we might talk about in a little while, I always carry a water bottle with some ice water in it specifically for those days.

Jerad Henson: Yeah, those are great. I mean, you're training an endurance athlete, right? So think about it from your standpoint. You can't go couch to run in a 5K in 100 degree heat. And where we're recording this, we're at NHQ. So we're down in Memphis. It's hot here in the summer. It's also stupid humid in here in the summer on top of it. It's already 80 today. Yeah. Welcome to the South, Nathan. Um, so those are, yeah, that's kind of the great general guidelines. And, um, but you mentioned, uh, the water, right. And, and how does water help cool or ice water that is, how's that really helping that dog cool off?

Jason Robinson: Well, so you're talking about a dog's kind of radiator is like their tongue and their mouth and their nose. And I'll probably allude to this a couple of times on this topic, but it's cold over quantity. Getting that radiator cooled down is important to helping them maintain their focus, scent, all those things, and not overheating as well.

Nathan Ratchford: I think that's a great point just because I feel like that's everyone's natural instinct when their dog is just panting is give them a bowl of water, right? And then you have issues like bloat, right? Dr. Jason, can you talk a little bit about that, that threat to retrievers and go back over that cold over quantity because I think that's super important.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, so, well, bloat. So, bloat is a problem where a dog will, especially deep chest debris like retrievers, will eat some water, drink some water, eat some food, and then exercise or pant or be excited and they'll suck air into their stomach. and then the stomach expands and then it can flip and create a real emergent problem called a gastric dilatation volvulus that's bad. So, preventing that in terms of getting them cold water, you're exactly right. You don't want to just turn them loose and let them chug a whole bowl of water. Because they will. That is exactly what leads to the bloat. And they're like still panting after exercise and things like that. And so, you know, there's kind of some things that I do in order to try to prevent some of that stuff. But I don't want to steal any thunder or if you've got other questions in regards to that.

Jerad Henson: I guess before we do that, because that kind of probably going to lead a little bit into the best time to like feed your dog and stuff like that. But if you're taking that cold water, right, if you just pour cold water across the back of a Labrador Retriever, it runs like waters off the back. Yeah. So what are some areas like if you do see a dog and we're going to talk about the signs for overheating in a second, but if you do think your dog's getting a little warm, and you need to try and cool them off. You can take that cold water at the same time and I think some from our previous conversations you've talked about their pads on their paws and then their belly are some good areas that you can help them cool off by adding a little water there, right?

Jason Robinson: Yeah, so you're talking about if they start getting kind of hot in the field? Yeah. So, I always carry, you know, a large white water bottle. Like, kind of like if you're into endurance, you know, long-distance biking, you're gonna have like a larger water bottle. And I get a white one, you know, because a lot of times we're in the field, it's September, dove season, whatever, and you're in tan and green. And not only is that water bottle helpful for heat problems, but, you know, you're giving hand signals and you're trying to do it against, you know, same color background. It gives a little contrast for the dogs to see that. But in terms of how it helps with heat, you know, not getting a large quantity of water. And then also these dogs that, you know, they're so focused on retrieving, whether it's waiting for that next bumper or to have a fly by or mark to fly by. They sometimes will sit there and just pant and they won't even just like, here's some water. And they're like, I don't care. And so you can jet the dirt and the feathers and stuff like that off of their mouths and get the lips, the gums, the tongue, the nose, all that stuff that's, you know, that's an evaporation point, heat exchange point in a dog, and you're getting some cold water on there that's going to take some blood back to the core of the body and cool them down. In terms of other things that you can do when you start identifying a dog getting too hot, going on their back is not going to do any good like you talked about. But if you have that buddy that has that ice chest out in the field, go grab some ice out of it, put it in their armpits and in their groin area where you're getting next to some big arteries that are going to take that blood back into the body. uh, and cool them down. But yeah, you know, those, those areas would be where you would concentrate, you know, cooling effect and, uh, and help them like cool down faster.

Jerad Henson: Awesome. Yeah. I mean, that water bottle idea, I always keep a water bottle and I keep a little tray with me when I was dove hunting, uh, with my lab and. I really enjoyed, or he would always enjoy, if I give him a little, he'd drink a little when he was into the hunt. But if he laid down, I could pour a little on his face or on his belly if he'd roll over, and he was good with that. That dog loved to dove hunt.

Nathan Ratchford: What are some signs you're looking for, Doc, on overheating or even heat stroke? What are some early signs that you're keeping an eye out for?

Jason Robinson: Yeah. You know, before they get to that heat stroke stage, you're gonna, you know, you're talking about dogs that, that are going to be like panting real hard, you know, and tongue just way out of their mouth. And, um, you know, one thing that, that I like to look for is, you know, dogs with like high prey drive and they're, they're really loving what they're doing. You know, if they come back after a retrieve and they lay down, you know, or they, you know, they were panting hard and now they're not panting as much and they may even look like, you might, you know, think that they look a little dizzy or disoriented. That's a dog that needs, you know, water on the mouth fast, ice in the armpits and in the groin and, you know, somebody run an air conditioner car and get them in there and, you know, get them to the house and get them cold hose down.

Jerad Henson: Cooled off quick, yeah. So, if you do see that, so those are early signs. Obviously, there's some, what are the, like, full heat stroke? What's that gonna look like in a dog?

Jason Robinson: You know, they won't walk out of the field. You're carrying them out of the field. They went from, you know, panting really hard to they're really just out of it. They pass out and, you know, they'll be hot to the touch. You know, their bodies are running around 106, 105, 106, some dangerous stuff. and they're not going to be responsive to you.

Jerad Henson: And so the big thing there is the preventative side, right? Be in tune with your dog, be aware of the environment you work in your dog, make sure you're prepared, you've got water and you've got shade and things like that. Those are probably some really good pointers just on the beginning and then also what time of day.

Nathan Ratchford: Yep. And ice, I thought that was a great one, Doc. My dogs love ice. Going back to your point of cold over quantity, if your dog will take in some ice cubes, all the better, right? It's about as cold as you could get.

Jason Robinson: Chewing on ice cubes is just fine.

Jerad Henson: Yeah. So circling back, let's go to the other side of that. We're talking about the bloat question, right? So that kind of introduced that idea. Probably shouldn't feed your dog a big meal right before you're gonna work them real hard.

Nathan Ratchford: Or after, right?

Jerad Henson: Or is it after? Both.

Jason Robinson: Great questions, but both is the answer. And, you know, this is not just necessarily for training in the heat. I take the same process to, you know, duck camp when I'm done, you know, working the dog for the day. You know, I take them out of the water, whether it's, you know, cypress, slough, or, you know, pond water where I'm training. First thing I do is rinse them down with a cold hose. And that's going to start the cooling process and keep them from panning and pulling that air in their stomach. It also helps because you're washing that funky water out of their fur that I see so many retrievers with dermatitis that come in because they don't get rinsed off enough. And then I'll also put some rubbing alcohol in their ears because they've got blood vessels in their ear flap. That evaporative process is going to help cool them down so they slow down the panting. Also helps with preventing ear infections because yeast gets down there that mixes with that water. And it's just the perfect environment for them to grow and create that ear infection. But that's the cooling down process that I apply both sides of the season. And then once the dogs cool down and stops panning and relaxes, maybe put them in the kennel for a second, then I'll give them some food. But as a rule of thumb, gastric emptying time is about three hours. So, I don't feed a dog before I train them or if I do, it's going to be three hours or longer before I do anything like that. And then, you know, the timetable is more afterwards is more about when did they cool down, you know, and some of those things that I just talked about help accelerate the cooling down, calming down process and they have some other benefits too. All those factors help them, you know, not eat, pant, you know, create that bullet situation.

Jerad Henson: So, if you are on, say, you've got a little longer training experience or in my case on a dove hunt, it's cooler, one of those dove hunts or something like that early season. What about like nutrition for a dog? Do they need something? Like if they've got a harder work day or something, is there something you would recommend as a snack or something you can take and give them something that's small that's got some energy or is that necessary?

Jason Robinson: Yeah. So, you know, in terms of heat-wise, having them out there for a long period of time and really burning through blood sugar is not as common, but I'll If I were to have something on me, like some Cairo syrup, something for them to replenish some sugar in their bloodstream. You can also go to a feed supply store and get 50% dextrose. It's for cattle, but you can pull that up in a syringe and give them about 10 mils if they need it. But as far as putting food on their stomach, I don't usually do that, because if you think about it, would you eat and go immediately swim for 30 minutes? No. That food is… You're going to be pulling blood away from the stomach that would be needed for digestion, so you're not going to assimilate much energy from that. And you're gonna jumble up all that stuff in the intestines, which is gonna lead to, you know, some problems later that you gotta clean up.

Jerad Henson: A messy kennel.

Nathan Ratchford: Right. I wanted to get your general input on, um, after the fact. Like my, my standard has always been an hour after. Because we talked a lot about before, I know you said after depends on how quickly they cool down. But just to give our listeners kind of a general idea, like an hour, it's definitely a shorter time frame than the before, right?

Jason Robinson: Yeah, right. An hour is a good idea. And, you know, a half-size ration, you know, split the ration that you would normally feed over the day into two those days. If you're a one-time-a-day feeder, that would be a good time to be a two-time-a-day feeder, but smaller size. Gotcha. Keep that stomach from expanding.

Jerad Henson: I feel like, and hydration, just kind of watching your dog and paying attention to not just the food side, but the hydration side, right? Making sure they're drinking plenty. So, kind of moving forward with a little bit of that, and we've talked a lot about, and you introduced it already, kind of that nasty water, right? But that's kind of one of the other topics we wanted to cover was looking at We're working our dogs in park ponds, we're working them at duck camp, we're working them wherever you can in the summer, and the water's gross in the summer a lot of times. And so that was kind of one of the things we really wanted to ask you about is being careful in those situations, especially if you're in a park pond or something like that that's got a lot of fertilizer runoff. those are gonna get some algal blooms. They're gonna get nasty and that can pose a serious issue for our dogs. Do you have any advice on recognizing that? So just being aware of what to look for so that You don't put your dog in a situation that's really gonna hurt it.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, you're probably referring to like blue-green algae blooms or cyanobacteria is technically the name for it. But yeah, so their avoidance is… the entire key to helping a dog not have that problem in the first place. And so there's a couple of field tests that you can do. If you want to get the water tested, the EPA has a website that you can go to and they actually have a list for each state, which labs are in each state that you can send a sample to. But kind of a quick and dirty test routine that you can do. There's two tests that they talk about. One's the jar test and one's the stick test. And the jar test, you know, you'd want to wear gloves because you don't want to get the stuff on your skin. But you dip the mason jar or something with a screw lid down underneath the water surface, get a little sample about, you know, two-thirds of the jar, you know, put the lid back on, wash it off, you know, and then you put it in the fridge overnight. And, you know, if the green goo kind of settles to the bottom, That's probably just normal algae, there's no problem. But contrast that with if you have kind of like a green slime layer that floats to the top, that's very likely, you know, blue-green algae bloom going on and I would stay out of that water. Or talk to somebody about getting it tested before you did. And then the stick test is just like it sounds. You take a stick, a long one. Again, you don't want it on your skin, so wearing a glove if you're going to do this, or a long stick. And if you dip it down into that algae mat and you come up, And it drips off like green paint. That's also probably a blue-green algae or cyanobacteria in that lake. And if it's stringy or like hair-like, that's probably just normal algae.

Jerad Henson: Yeah, yeah, like the filamentous algae type stuff. And just looking at it from a visual standpoint, we're not talking about duckweed, we're not talking about the things that float on top, like the little plants or anything like that. The water itself will look kind of milky, right? And that's something you're looking for. If you see that just from the get-go, I would probably avoid that. Be cautious, yeah. Right? Be real careful, because what are the symptoms if your dog does get into this?

Jason Robinson: Well, you know, even past the symptoms, you know, it's bad stuff. You definitely want to stay away from it because, you know, high mortality rate with it. There's two syndromes, if you will. One's a hepatotoxic or liver toxic and the other one is a neurotoxic one. And the signs that you, you know, symptoms you'd be looking for for the liver one, you know, pretty acute onset, you know, vomiting and diarrhea, bloody diarrhea, real bad lethargy. And so, if you have that kind of combination with, I just got in some nasty green pond, let's get to the vet like now, not like next day appointment. The neurotoxin, unfortunately, is, you know, you see acute patient demise. It's bad. So the first signs you see will be tremors, you know, and then they might start seizuring and then they kind of are unresponsive. And so avoidance, like you're saying, of getting in those ponds is number one for that because that is such an acute to mortality problem that you don't really have the time to get to a vet and try to get stuff out of them or make them vomit it up. And also another take-home point for that is it causes nasty dermatitis in humans. So if you have to pick up your dog and carry them, either rinse them off real fast or wrap them in something where you're not going to get the water on you.

Jerad Henson: That's a great point. And again, going back to preventative side, understand what causes that algal bloom. It's nutrient runoff. So it's going to be areas that have a lot of fertilizer runoff, have a lot of cattle-like feces, whatever, runoff, lots of nutrients into a small body of water. And that's really going to give that problem that creates, or that situation that creates that algal bloom. And so be aware of what kind of pond you're putting your dog in, but not just how it looks. But if you're putting it in something that's got a lot of nutrient runoff, whether it's an ag field or park pond, golf course pond, right? They put a lot of fertilizer in golf course, things like that. Those are areas that can easily have an algal bloom. So farm ponds, especially too.

Jason Robinson: Yeah.

Jerad Henson: Well, I think that's a really good spot for us to take a really quick break and we will come back in just a second and jump back into the second half of this podcast.

Jason Robinson: Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, sponsored by Purina ProPlan and Bird Dog Whiskey, after these messages.

Jerad Henson: Hey everybody, welcome back. We've been going over some retriever safety and really focused in on kind of some summer issues and summer training issues that you might be concerned with and some tips and pointers on how to help you be more successful in your training and keep your dog safe. We just covered through some heat issues and through some water quality issues and things like that. And we're going to jump over into a really common problem. And Jason alluded to it already, and some ear infections, right? Nasty water, humid environment. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jason Robinson: I mean, I think all dogs, if they get in the water, and you don't dry that ear canal out after they get out of water, are going to be prone to getting ear infections because of that. I think retrievers might be a little bit over-represented in that category, you know, because of a couple of different factors. You know, one being that they've got that, you know, ear flap, you know, that hangs down. So, confirmationally speaking, they're kind of like trapping, you know, moisture and humidity in there, and they have kind of deep canals. And then the second factor is, you know, They're a little bit more over-representative with dogs, with allergies, which can increase your chance of getting an ear infection.

Jerad Henson: That's interesting because, yeah, the allergy side plays a role into that, the dog's physiology and anatomy plays a role, and then also what it's doing. So, what are some tips on preventing that?

Jason Robinson: So, going back to kind of what I said earlier about what I do every single, my process, as soon as they get out of the water, you know, duck season, training season, either way, after the rinse off, he's going to get some rubbing alcohol down his ears. Not in infected ears, I wouldn't do that. That would burn. But otherwise healthy ear canals and you're doing like a maintenance. And so I'll flood the ear canal. I got a little squeezy bottle and I'll flood the ear canal with rubbing alcohol. And you know, and it's funny too because if you've noticed that the dogs hate it when you give them a bath. They'll jump in muddy water all day long, but you give them a bath and it's like, oh, I can't believe you just put soap and water on me. This is the end of the world. Yeah, it's terrible. And so, you know, because they resent it so much that, you know, you've dried them off well, the first thing they do is run in the house and shake as hard as they possibly can. And then, you know, sprinkler system on your walls. So, it's my little sneaky trick on my dog. You know, we get him dry, rinse him off, dry him off, and then right at the back door, I put the rubbing alcohol down in his ears and he gets a great shake-in out in my garage instead of in my dining room. So, a little tip there. But yeah, that's, you know, keeping the ear canals dry, you know, after swimming is the number one, you know, pre-remedy to keep from getting ear infections. So that's the big thing. Should you swab them out or anything? You know, if there's not discharge in the ears, if there's discharge in the ears, especially copious, you know, that's where you go head to the veterinarian. But, you know, I don't really… I don't swab down in there. It's more a matter of getting the rubbing alcohol in the ear. There's also… I was going to talk about this in a second, but there's also stuff that you can get from a veterinarian that's got non-alcohol drying agents as well if you got a dog with real sensitive ears. But, you know, more or less it's flooding the canal and then I might even give a little rub where the cartilage is going down into the head and you kind of get this little squishy, squishy factor. And then from a hydrostatic standpoint, you know, water pressure in a pipe standpoint, you're kind of breaking maybe wax off that deep canal or the… The vertical, the canal that you can't see, you got the horizontal and vertical. And density principles, that stuff floats to the top. So, when they shake, it is all coming out. And you keeping them clean constantly like that, you know, you shouldn't need to wipe them out a whole lot. Okay.

Nathan Ratchford: So, you're doing that every time, Jason? Every time they're in the water?

Jason Robinson: Every single time he gets out of the water, that's the routine. You know, in terms of maintenance therapy, you know, You know, most retrievers, you know, they've got, you know, ceruminous or wax kind of producing glands in their ear and a lot of them. And so, you know, maintenance-wise, I would say it'd be a good idea to flush them out once a week. And you don't necessarily have to use a Q-tip, kind of use that same principle where you kind of massage the ear and break stuff up. But, you know, I got four or four gauze at the clinic, but you got, you know, something soft, non-abrasive like toilet tissue at home that you can kind of two-ply over like a pinky finger. and go down in there, and you're not gonna hit an eardrum doing it that way, but you'll get any kind of gunk that may come out, float to the top.

Jerad Henson: Yeah, and it's not just water. My lab was super prone to ear infections. So, you can sit on a couch all day for a week and end up with an ear infection all the time. So, what are you looking for? Like, obviously, that nasty, like, black, blackish-reddish Exudate on there is something obviously that's when things are getting awry. You should go see a vet. What are the normal treatments?

Jason Robinson: So, you know, kind of going back to retrievers over-representing like allergies, you know, in the allergy category and that leading to the ceruminous gland or the wax-producing gland in the ear. overproducing wax and then opportunistic microbes like yeast just get to overproduce because they got the perfect Petri dish, if you will, in the ears. And so, you know, probably starts with going to a veterinarian and getting like an ear cleaner that has, you know, some drying agents in it and some, you know, some other things in it that, you know, help to fight bacteria and yeast. Routine ear cleaning. You know, dogs with allergies. It will compound how bad an ear infection can be. Because you produce so much more wax, that brown waxy stuff, and it'll also inflame the ear itself. And so, you know, talking to a veterinarian about allergies, whether it's… environmental allergen that's causing it, you know, trees, the same stuff that lights up our sinuses. Or, you know, like a food allergy, for instance, where they're allergic to a protein source or something like that.

Jerad Henson: Mine definitely had real bad spring allergies, and that's when they got worse. You go get the allergy shot. I don't remember how long that one lasts, but it would knock it out.

Jason Robinson: Yeah, yeah, there's allergy testing, there's oral medications that help with it, and also, you know, using those, you know, kind of veterinary approved rinses, you know, most retrievers once a month. Allergy dogs, more frequent, the more better.

Jerad Henson: Yeah, I just remember the treatment process for him. We'd go he'd get the allergy shot and he'd always have ear infections. Same time, that's when I knew his allergies were getting bad. He'd get whelps on his stomach and then the ears and it all hit within like three days. Go from zero to nothing. We'd go get the shot. We'd get some ear treatment and that's what you're talking about like massaging that in. You could squeeze some of that stuff down in their ear and then like just on the outside of the ear, it was labbed, so really easy just push on. You could hear that stuff squishing around in there and Then wipe it out the outside part, just get the worst of it off a little tissue or paper towel type thing.

Jason Robinson: Yeah. Ear cleaning prevention helps you from getting that micro buildup. If you get to that point though, where you've got, you know, you can see brown wax all the way to like some yelly nasty smell and stuff. That's a real bad advanced ear infection, and realistically, you need to go to a vet, let them see what it is under the microscope, and then kind of match the medication that should go in the ear. These days, there's some stay-in medication that's really helpful, because it lasts for long times in the ear. Also, we'll have, for instance, like a steroid type of compound that just affects only the ear canal, so you're calming down the inflammation right at the point where the allergies are attacking it.

Nathan Ratchford: Yeah it just seems to your point some are just genetically or physiologically just more prone to it. Spaniels in particular with those long long ears with the curly hair. I mean it's they seem to just really be prone to those those ear infections. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Robinson: Genetically speaking more wax glands down in the canal that making that that Petri dish that I was talking about that can that can definitely be one of the problems that makes it occur in those breeds more often.

Jerad Henson: It's a big thing again. Prevention, prevention, prevention. Be aware. Yeah, keep them clean.

Nathan Ratchford: And ask your vet the right questions too, right? Because some of those things, especially if the dog's young, might be switch up a diet, right? I mean, just try to get to the bottom of it. Some things you can control, some things you can't, right?

Jerad Henson: Yeah, with my dog, that was one of them. We had a dog food that was perfect and amazing and it worked. Through COVID, you couldn't get it.

Jason Robinson: Mmm.

Jerad Henson: So he had to switch and I think we switched to like six different dog foods after that. Never found one that worked as well. Always had some dermatitis issue and used good dog foods. It's not like I was using. He just was sensitive to all kinds of stuff. And so that played into that, I think as well. So yeah, be aware of that stuff. Try and match your food with your dog. And if it's not the food, it could be, they can get seasonal allergies. Just like humans. Right. So be aware of that too. I think that kind of wraps up that good topic on ears. The last thing we want to talk about is everybody's favorite topic for summer dog safety. You're out. It's hot. You're not the only creatures out moving about. What are we doing about Mr. No Shoulders? You know, snake safety. Nathan's real happy about this topic with, yeah. Yeah, just another… Getting used to cottonmouths and all that stuff.

Nathan Ratchford: Exactly, just another thing I need to be mindful of moving down here is all the stories you hear. Some, I'm sure, have been exaggerated a bit. Some, I'm sure, have some good merit. Doc, moving down here, my biggest concern, especially in the water, has been cottonmouths. But I know there's other ones out there, right? Run us through the most common venomous snakes that hunters, both in the Southern United States and Western United States, will encounter most working their dog, and your experience on those snake bites, how they kind of rank, in your opinion, from a veterinarian standpoint.

Jason Robinson: You know, it's kind of funny that we're talking about it this time of year, because this is the time of year when you see your most snake bites, that temperature's changing, they're out, they can't move as fast, and, you know, dogs are naturally curious, and they're like, what is that stinky smell? Like in cottonmouths especially. They smell awful. But, you know, snakes can't get away, and the dog's too curious, and it's classic. You know, they get bit on the face and muzzle, kind of like here and there, and then you know, Paul, those are classic spots. And in this area of the country, you know, where we're at technically right now, you're talking more about copperheads and cotton and water moccasins. You know, but if you, a little bit south of us, you go over into southeast Arkansas, you got, you know, rattlesnakes. Mississippi, you got rattlesnakes. You got west, you got, you know, Wyoming prairie rattlesnakes. So, those are the three common ones. And in terms of you know, severity of the bite, you know, copperheads, then, you know, water moccasins, then rattlesnakes would be, you know, in terms of like tissue response to their bite from least to most severe is kind of how I'd order it. So rattlesnakes being the worst. Bad bite.

Jerad Henson: Especially, they get big, and so they can dose a big load of venom, and that doubles the issue. It's nasty venom, and then they get a large dose. It can be an issue. We had a lab that got bit by a copperhead. When I was growing up, got bit on the paw, imagine that. Classic spot. But expensive vet visit, but she did fine afterwards. It's just nasty. Yeah. So like, if you do think your dog may have been bit or something like that. What are things you should look for?

Jason Robinson: So, they happen, you know, kind of rapidly within 30 minutes. And you can't hardly ever see, like for instance, like the marks where they were bitten. You'll just see like a swelling. And it's kind of in those classic two areas. And, you know, That's where getting to a vet quick would be important. And the muzzle, the underside of the jowl, the paw, this time of year especially, around water, creaks are real notorious for them. Those are all kind of like the, I probably just got bit by a venomous snake.

Jerad Henson: Good ideas to look for. If your dog does get bit, what do we do?

Jason Robinson: Yeah, so going to a veterinarian would be like very first move. You might do some things like set yourself up for success on the way. Getting some Pepsodase C on board and some Benadryl on board. Neither of those things are going to really reverse the process of the snake bite and the venom going and the tissue destruction that's going to happen. They'll mitigate the response, right? Copperheads, you might argue, it'd be really beneficial just because they're not quite as hot of a bite as the other two, in my experience. You know, you're kind of setting yourself up for success for, because you're going to the nearest vet clinic, you know, to seek treatment. And vets have different opinions on what works and what doesn't work. And so, you know, some vets may, you know, want to treat with steroids as like a first line of defense for the inflammation that the bites caused. And if that's the case, the Benadryl is going to work kind of synergistically to help with the inflammation that they're trying to control with that steroid. And then you also gave Pepsodacy which kind of protects the gut against some of the side effects that a steroid might cause. I talk to owners about, you know, using antivenom and kind of counsel them on, hey, you know, we need to give like a test dose. It's expensive. You got to still… The bottle is expensive, but we got to do this test dose to make sure they don't have a reaction to the antivenom. But I really feel like it helps, you know, with those water moccasin bites and especially rattlesnake bites. And also, time is a key factor. That's why heading straight to the vet after you think there's a bite is a really good idea. Because if you can get that antivenom on board, your downstream consequences, the tissue destruction that's gonna happen in these bad bites, will be lessened. The pain will be lessened, you know, and so, you know, getting some pain meds on board for the dog, you know, talking about the different therapies that are available, but, you know, you think, especially if your dog jumps by a creek and you see a snake, you know, run off, that's, that's go straight to the vet.

Nathan Ratchford: Are all vets equipped with antivenom? Okay, so you should know where you can go in the event of a snake bite.

Jason Robinson: So getting to a veterinary clinic or hospital, you know, or if there's an emergency hospital, veterinary hospital near you, that would be key. Getting to the veterinary hospital, they can go over a treatment plan with you and they know where they can find some antivenom for you in that area, especially if it's a snaky area. They're going to have an idea. I mean, I know where I can get some. I don't have some in the clinic, but I know where I can go get some quickly.

Jerad Henson: Yeah. Yeah. And I think there's some really interesting stuff. So I know that, that, um, Cal, one of the meat eater guys documented his dog's experience getting bit by a snake and on the ear and all the tissue damage it caused. And it was a, it's a big ordeal.

Nathan Ratchford: So, um, how important is snake identification doc for like those, you know, like, do you need to know what it was bit by in order to receive the proper, like, is there different types of antivenom, or is it just a matter of dosing appropriately? How's that go?

Jason Robinson: Antivenom is all the same, but yeah, absolutely. In terms of identification of the snake, because one, was it venomous or not? That would be one thing. And then also, everyone might not treat a copperhead bite like they might treat a big old rattlesnake that bit you bite. There might be some differences there, so that'd be a good reason to know what bit you.

Nathan Ratchford: You talked a little bit about on your way to the vet, right? Some Pepsid. What about just making sure that collar isn't super tight? Anything else like that? Circulation?

Jason Robinson: Anything that would be constrictive where they got bit should probably come off, you know? That's a good point.

Jerad Henson: I think that's a good segue into kind of one of our last little things we want to talk about. What are some good things to carry other than that, other than Benadryl? So, I guess maybe even some basic medical stuff to treat a snake bite. So you've got Benadryl, you've got… Oh, like an emergency kit? Yeah, I don't think we don't have to go into a full emergency kit, but just kind of more specific to this. I think we'll jump into that full kit in the next segment.

Jason Robinson: You know, in terms of, you know, low blood sugar, KRO syrup, keeping that on hand, you know, there's, in terms of snake bites, there's not much you can do to reverse that process, and so getting to a vet's important. But perhaps what I see in Benadryl, kind of setting yourself up for success, you know, potentially helping you with, you know, treatment plan, you know, or the treatment plan that the veterinarian gives you, and, you know, the, the process of reversing that envenomation specifically in terms of snake, there's, you know, really Benadryl and Pepsodase C are kind of the only things that would be kind of helpful in that situation.

Jerad Henson: Yeah, they're antihistamines, right?

Jason Robinson: Both of those drugs. Antihistamine-type drugs. Pepsodase C is going to kind of lower stomach acid production. And then you're right. Exactly. Benadryl is antihistamine. Yep.

Nathan Ratchford: And make sure that you're familiar with proper dosing for those, right? Beforehand, right? Like what's the standard for Benadryl as an example?

Jason Robinson: It's a… Great question.

Nathan Ratchford: Milligram per pound?

Jason Robinson: Exactly right. So like a 25 pound dog, 25 milligrams, which is the standard dose that you're going to buy, you know, at a pharmacy or Kroger's or wherever you go. And then, you know, 50 pound dog, 50 milligrams. It doesn't make dogs sleepy like it does humans. And so it's important to match that kind of pound with milligram dose. And then, you know, Pepsodacy or the generic is Fomodidine if they don't have Pepsodacy. You know, that's a 20 milligram tablet. Little dog, half a tablet. Big dog, one tablet. Kind of keep it simple.

Jerad Henson: Okay. Perfect. Good to know.

Nathan Ratchford: Make sure you have a few on hand then.

Jerad Henson: Yes. Yeah, a big boy like me. Well, Nathan, do you have any more questions on kind of the summer safety? I think we're good. We covered a lot here. Well, we want to thank Dr. Jason for helping us out on this first part. We're going to come back to him in just a little bit on kind of some field safety ideas. Nathan, I want to thank you for joining in as my co-host today. Absolutely. Chris Isaacs over there, the man behind the curtain, our podcast producer on pulling this podcast together for us. And thank you, the listener, for tuning into the podcast today. Come back and join us for the second part of this, where we go more into depth on field safety, winter safety on dog training.