Ducks Unlimited Podcast

John Gordon: Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm John Gordon. I'll be your host for this episode. We're going to be talking dogs again, retrievers specifically, and what you can really do in the spring and summer months to keep your dog in shape for the fall. And my guest today is a highly accomplished field trial trainer that I met at a gas station in Texas, in Crockett, Texas. It's an interesting story, talking about a random meeting, and I was there with my going retriever. He was just a baby at the time. I had come back from doing some filming down around Rockport. And I'm sitting in the parking lot, airing him out. And, uh, this young guy rolls up in his truck and says, Hey man, where'd you get that gold retriever from? And that sparked a conversation. And, uh, and we've kept in touch ever since. So, uh, Hunter Hastings, welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. Thank you, sir. Proud to be here. Yeah, that was a completely random deal right there, man. I mean, I'm just sitting there in a gas station in Crockett and I go to that gas station every time I go through there. I stop off right there. They got a killer barbecue place right there. They got a killer brisket sandwich. And so Buster and I have been back to that gas station many times. And every time I stop there, man, I always think about, man, this is Simon and Hunter right here at the gas station. And that was pretty cool. And you were living in Texas at the time, and y'all were coming back to Mississippi, right?

Hunter Hastings: Well, I was coming back, I think that was deer and duck season. I think I was coming back to spend a few days to duck hunt. But yes, I was living in Anderson, Texas. And I think I was a couple of years away from moving back to Mississippi, but eventually moved back to Mississippi. And I miss Texas, but I'm enjoying myself living in Mississippi back where I'm from.

John Gordon: Right, right. Give the audience a little bit of your background. So you were training your own dogs, correct? And having some success and you caught the eye of a guy I consider a real field trial legend and Danny Farmer and you went to work for him. Is that kind of the short story, long story?

Hunter Hastings: It is. I started training labs when I was about 15, and I actually did it backwards than most people. I did not grow up duck hunting. I grew up running dogs, and I got into labs, and that's what sparked me to go duck hunting, is having a dog. But yes, I was training hunting dogs, running hunt tests through high school. And in college, and then as soon as I graduated college, the stars kind of lined up and I had a opportunity to go work for Danny. And I spent five years working for Danny, running mainly all field trials, no hunting or hunt tests. So I have more experience with that than I do anything else.

John Gordon: That's a different game than the hunt test, right? I mean, it's a whole different world. So that had to have been a big adjustment for you.

Hunter Hastings: It was. One, I was still young and I hadn't been doing it all that long, so I still had a lot of bad habits to break, but not as many as I would have if I'd have been training hunting dogs for 20 years. But a lot of the mentality is different with a hunt test guy versus a field trial guy. They're just two completely different games, but also, like I said, two very different viewpoints on how to get a dog to do certain things, and mainly the expectations between the two.

John Gordon: Well, it's a win-lose game, field trial, right? There's no… Win or don't eat. Yeah, that's it. Win or go home kind of deal. It's not any kind of a game you can play just for fun. That's a whole different world. than the hunt test. I would encourage anybody out there, if you've never seen a field trial, you should go to one because you'll see some dog work that will blow your mind. I mean, you'll see what a retriever on the highest level can do. And it's eye-opening because most folks would have no idea the level you can train one to.

Hunter Hastings: I had this conversation this morning. Matter of fact, a guy asked me, We was talking about, I was telling him that I enjoy training hunting dogs now just because I enjoy the relationship between the owner and the dog. And he asked me, he said, is it that much of a difference between a hunting dog and a field trial dog? And I said, it is, it actually is. And he has never seen it, so it's hard for him to, you don't know what you haven't seen. But it is, it is a tremendous difference and very amazing what they can, what the dogs at the highest level can do for sure.

John Gordon: Yeah. Yeah. It is pretty amazing, but we're not here to talk about failed trials. We're here to talk about, uh, it's summertime coming up right around the corner. This is late March. We're in the deep South. Uh, there there's, it's challenging. right, to keep your dog in shape, in condition throughout these months in the South. So, you know, that's what I want to talk to you about, Hunter. Just, you know, some of the things that you would do with dogs during the summertime that you may like and you wouldn't do at other times of the year when it's not as hot. So, the first thing I really wanted to talk about is building endurance, right? So, and the fact that you really, you know, you need to warm dogs up, I think, right, before you really start running, you know, long marks. It's too easy to just pull a dog out of the truck and go, right? I mean, I just think people would benefit from really kind of warming the dog up first.

Hunter Hastings: Sure, sure. This depends on, you know, how many dogs you have, but if you're running a lot of dogs, you know, typically I like to have someone that's going to walk the dogs. We call them a shuttle or shuffling dogs, but they would get the dog out of the truck and then air the dog and then not just stand in a spot and let the dog run around. You want to actually walk the dog and get them loosened up. I probably would not throw any fun bumpers before a workout. I think that's… I think more dogs get or prone to injury from a fun bumper than anything just going from stop to start and not under really controlled environment. It's just, you know, you're really jazzing them up and you throw it, you don't really know where it's going to go. I would say walking the dog and letting them exercise, use the bathroom would be the best way to… And you're not going to get them very excited. You're just going to let their legs loosen up and you're a lot less likely to pull anything. Or a cruciate tear in labs is your biggest deal that you're worried about. So the starting and stopping is the big deal with the cruciate tears.

John Gordon: Yeah, that's right. These dogs are athletes, just like football players, basketball players, whatever, heavy baseball. Those soft tissue joint tears are what you really have to watch for. I hunted back this Redford Christmas goose hunting with a guy who, that's his specialty. He's an orthopedic veterinarian. a surgeon and he said, man, he just, it just, that's who the vast majority of dogs that you see come in are sporting dogs that have, that, that just, you know, ran too hard, stepped in a hole, did something like that and, and they, they ended up injured. So it's, I think that's a very vital thing that people really need to think about is, yeah, get that dog warmed up loose before you just start running drills and marks.

Hunter Hastings: Right. Especially marks. You know, you might want to run a blind initially, typically You know, a dog isn't going to tear out as much on a blind versus a mark, but I may run a couple of blinds with him, you know, may start out in the water, let him get loosened up. That's always something good. And then, you know, I would just be real careful about just going straight to marks because that's typically when they'll tear something.

John Gordon: Do you, you know, I know in the pointing dog world, the word roading is a thing, right? They really will, will condition dogs that way. Do you ever do that with the retrievers?

Hunter Hastings: I do. And there's a, there's an argument on, on roading. So in the bird dog world, they use furnaces. Right. And it's all about their, their heartbeat, getting it to a certain level. We trained a dog for a guy named Milton McClure, and he was a horse racing vet in Shreveport, Louisiana. And he was totally against the harnesses, the harness roading. He wanted them to freelance road just to follow the four-wheeler. That way they could stop, they could jump in the pond, they could tear out, they could go on their own pace. That's what he really liked because that's, you know, a retriever isn't a marathon runner, unlike a bird dog. A bird dog is a marathon runner. a retriever's gonna start, burst of energy, stop, come back, you know, it's more like a basketball player. So his thought was the freelance roading for endurance and for, you know, the release, the mental release of just being able to be a dog. He really liked that versus, you know, but I know there's, you know, maybe both. I've talked to Ray Vogt about it and the heart rate and I understand all that. I just, I don't have enough knowledge to argue between the two, but personally like the freelance roadie.

John Gordon: And that makes a lot of sense, right? I mean, I can see where that might lead to injury, right? If a dog is in a harness and can't, you know, get out of the way of an obstruction or something like that. Although, you know, you wouldn't want to do that. You wouldn't do that on purpose, but you know, accidents happen, right? And that harness has got that dog locked in. So, for people that really don't know what we're talking about, roading is like, generally, like I said, the dogs are following behind, you know, and running, you know, ATV, four-wheelers, you know, whatever. So, they really get, like I said, they get their heart rates up. Just like a person, you know, that leads to just much better conditioning. Uh, so that's, that's what roading is all about. So, um, uh, you know, it's just, I remember I, I worked with a dog years ago and he was just, he was so overweight. That's how I got him down. Right. I just roaded that dog consistently every day and he must've dropped, he dropped 25 pounds. The owner couldn't believe it, you know, and I wasn't trained professionally, but it was just a guy I knew, you know, so he needed some help with the dog and I was just like, well, you know, I'll get, I'll see what I can do. And man, he was astounded by what that, you know, that little bit of conditioning did for him.

Hunter Hastings: The roading is a huge deal with the bird dog people. Huge deal.

John Gordon: Right. And you're right. They have to be so cardiovascular fit that it's crazy. You know, especially on the field trial level. I went to the to the national championship last year and this just, man, everybody at Ames, right? And they're just everybody's on horseback.

Hunter Hastings: Oh, yeah. I've been I've been. many times. Where I'm from in Prentiss County, Mississippi is a big bird dog area. There's four Hall of Fame trainers from my county. And so I've, you know, grew up in hearing about all those stories. And they are a canine to do the three hours in Ames, they have to be in perfect physical shape because it is equivalent to a marathon. So they'll run 20 to 27 miles in a three-hour period.

John Gordon: Yeah, it's crazy to see a high-level pointing dog just roll through cover, roll through terrain. and cover so much ground, you know, finding coveys, it's really impressive. Another thing, folks in the local area, you should go check that out, you know, and I love the Hall of Fame, right? That's a really cool deal.

Hunter Hastings: It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. So, well, I hate to get on the bird dog kick, but the Riggins White Knight, the really famous bird dog, was born about three houses down from where I live now, which there's a big, you know, portrait of him in the Hall of Fame. But yeah, I've always thought that was really cool just that he's from Prentiss County, Mississippi.

John Gordon: Yeah, a lot of folks don't realize that that Hall of Fame is even there in Grand Junction, Tennessee, which from here, it's only about an hour.

Hunter Hastings: It's amazing.

John Gordon: Very, very cool. We're getting off topic again. We're talking about retriever conditioning, folks, and what some things you can really do with your dog over the spring and summer months. It's more specifically here in the South. It's challenging. We're going to reach temperatures in the mid-90s sooner than later. And so you've got to be careful with it. So let's talk about the water, Hunter, because one thing it's always kind of, I think, people overlook is, oh, you just swim the dog in the water, it'll be fine. And that's not the case, because water will get super hot as well.

Hunter Hastings: Yes, it just depends on your pond. If there's a natural spring that comes in there, that can really, really help. But some of these lakes that's in direct sunlight all day can be way worse than just It's like a hot bathtub. You'll see them get hotter in a stagnant pond than you will just running landmarks.

John Gordon: Exactly, because you have to think about the fact that those dogs are only in the first foot of water. It's not like they're diving down with the fish 10 feet down. You really have to think about that. And I think a lot of folks just think, oh, they're in the water. They'll be fine. I think that's probably led to a lot of heat stress over the years.

Hunter Hastings: Oh, yeah, for sure. For sure. I would be very, very careful about swimming long distances. I would like to just cut a corner or cross a small channel or something on the way to a mark, but you're doing those long swims in the hot summer. That's brutal. And the difference between being down here versus being up north, it's not necessarily that it doesn't get hot up north, it just cools down at night. Typically, the water temperature is cooler there than it is here. So that's why you got to really be careful with the water.

John Gordon: You know, you were talking about maybe, you know, just doing some short swims on March. Is that typical drill that you would do throughout the summer, like I said, to really keep the dogs in shape?

Hunter Hastings: Yeah, sure. Swimming's always, you know, really, really good. But you just don't want to do long, nothing but water swims in a hot, stagnant pond because that's, they can, it'll really, you know, get it out of them quick. And the thing about getting hot is, once they get so hot, they can't think as well. So then, therefore, you're getting frustrated. The dog's not performing to the best of its ability, and typically the two does not go well together.

John Gordon: Exactly, exactly. And that's one thing I would lead it into, something I want to talk about, and that is heat stress and the signs that you really need to look for. Is there anything that you would tell the audience immediately if you see a dog, doing this that they could be in trouble?

Hunter Hastings: So it's, to me, it's all with the tongue. If they just have a, if they're breathing, you know, with their tongue out, like, you can tell they're hot. They're not in bad shape. But if you see them with that tongue very extended, very thick and fat, and then breathing out of the very back of their throat, that's when they're in trouble. And you better get help quick. because it comes on really, really fast. I've always said you need to have a cooler full of ice is the best thing because you can put water in the cooler and typically there'll be some melted water in your cooler that's colder than just your water that's coming out of a water hose or in your dog trailer. So having ice there is very, very important. Having a thermometer is very important. I always like to keep a big towel that you can lay on the dog's back, also very important. These fans that they have now are extremely great. I have the Ryobi fans, the green ones. They're phenomenal. Because the thing is, I understand you park in the shade. The dog comes in, you put on a tie out, well, it's still hot. So when you do put a fan on them, it doesn't seem to work as well as if you have him in your dog box and you put a fan on him. I don't know if it's because that air is circulating in that tighter quarters and they seem to cool down way better.

John Gordon: Yeah, that's one thing I really noticed. So, you know, because your average guy doesn't have a, you know, trailer or truck rigs, right? They've got single kennels. And with today's modern like roto-molded kennels, they seem like they're a lot more better insulated than the old thin kennels of yesterday that we used to use. They really seem better.

Hunter Hastings: Oh, yeah. It depends on how hot he is. If he's really hot, I won't put him back in the truck, but I'll put him in the truck for a minute and let him get cooled down. As soon as he gets cooled down, then I'll pull him out and put him on a tie out, make sure he's got water. One thing to look at is if that dog is not drinking, if he's hot and he's not drinking, He's very hot. You better be putting some ice water on him quick. If he starts drinking, he's fine.

John Gordon: Yeah, that's a really good point. And I think a lot of that, right, Sid, is related to the fact that they can't, that heat is trying to escape through their mouths. They don't sweat like we do. They don't have capability of that. So it all has to come out through there. And it's just, yeah, they're overwhelmed, right? And they just really can't even drink. They can't breathe, right? They're not thinking clearly.

Hunter Hastings: Yes, you want to put the water in there. I put it on their ears. If they're not drinking, I'll put some on their tongue at least just to wet their mouth, but mainly their belly. You want to get up under their belly, under their armpits. That's where they're going to, and don't let them lay down. You want them to stand up.

John Gordon: Why is that? Just for simple breathing?

Hunter Hastings: That's where they're letting their, that and that's where they're letting the heat out. They're letting the heat out through their stomach and under their armpits. So you don't want them to be laying down on the ground.

John Gordon: Very good point. Very good point.

Hunter Hastings: And like, you know, you run, say you run, uh, you know, like in basketball practice, when you get done running, the worst thing you can do is stand there and put your hand on your knees. You need to put your hands on top of your head and keep walking around. That's how you'll gain your air back the quickest.

John Gordon: Right, right. I've seen people use rubbing alcohol in the past, but I always thought that that could be a problem.

Hunter Hastings: Yes, it retains the coolness. So you put the rubbing alcohol on there and then put the ice on top of that and it keeps the body cooler longer.

John Gordon: I got you. I guess the main thing I've thought about it is that, you know, that the alcohol is a is a vasoconstrictor, right? So I guess if you put too much on them, it could really kind of hinder the body's ability to cool down.

Hunter Hastings: Yeah, I don't know. The vets that I've talked to, they recommended the alcohol and all those old dog tails, all those old dog trainers, they always used alcohol.

John Gordon: Yeah, that's what I thought. It seems to be there's like two schools of thought on it now, that it may not be the best thing to do, right? But sounds like you're a fan.

Hunter Hastings: I am. The ice water is the ticket, though. Have ice on hand. Yeah, that's the biggest thing.

John Gordon: Same with warm weather hunting, right? Doves, especially. You know, I always made it a point never to hunt my dogs in the afternoons, but some people do. And I think you just really, you've got to be prepared. You know, just like if you're training with them. I mean, you're killing, I guess. Yeah, that's right. It could be over fast too. You know, you want that dog sitting out there for three hours in the heat for sure. Let's talk about nutrition for a second, Hunter. Is there anything you do differently in the warmer months than you do in the winter as far as feeding?

Hunter Hastings: I would float their food. I'm a big fan of floating their food just because you're hydrating them, you're forcing them to drink, and they're eating it slower. And I would also have them a little thin in the summer. I wouldn't have them overweight or maybe just slightly thinner than I normally would in the heat of the summer. I just feel like they do better that way.

John Gordon: Good point. Good point. But you don't change the level of protein, fat content or anything in the food?

Hunter Hastings: I don't, just because they're still working the same amount. If I was just laying around during the summer and I wasn't working them, then I would understand that you would need to change their food. But I've never stopped working them in the summer, so I keep it at the same protein and fat.

John Gordon: But I think that is a good point for your average guy with one dog, right? The dog's not being worked as much as your field trial or hunt test dog. It probably is a good idea to cut back, I would think, on the protein and fat level.

Hunter Hastings: I would keep the same kind of feed, though, but I wouldn't be swapping his feed, especially if he does good on one food.

John Gordon: Yeah, yeah, very, yeah, good point. Yeah, not to change, you know, brands of food, just cut back on the, because it looks like every major sporting dog food these days has got different levels of protein and fat, right? Oh yeah. That you can cut back on if you need to or increase depending on the workload. Any specific drills that you really would do more in the summer, you know, for conditioning levels than you would, you know, in the wintertime if you're hunting dog?

Hunter Hastings: Yeah, sure. I would, you know, in the summertime, I would do the things that I don't really want to do when the training's good. So like, you know, tune up drills around the water, maybe. Wagon wheels are really, really big deal. You know, maybe some poison bird drills, some Which this is getting into the field trial stuff, but I would just do the kind of stuff that typically when the weather's good, you're wanting to throw marks and blinds. You know, you're wanting to run marks and blinds. You're wanting to do big triples and big blinds. And you don't really want to waste a pretty day. Of good weather doing wagon wheel, you know, so I would take, I would try to do the things that I don't normally want to do, or don't have time to do in the summer. And, you know, you don't have to, uh, go anywhere to do it. You can do waggle on your backyard.

John Gordon: That's right. That that's always, you know, those are easy drills to do with, uh,

Hunter Hastings: And I would do like your tune-up drills on the water. Those are always really short. They don't need to be really over 50 or 60 yards. And that's something that would be good to do because they're in and out of water, they're short, and they usually don't take very long.

John Gordon: Explain for folks who don't know what a tune-up drill is. I know what it is, but if you can just elaborate on it a little bit for us.

Hunter Hastings: So, it's a drill designed to teach a dog the rules around the water, mainly on how to angle. Dogs naturally do not angle. They want to square. So, a tune-up drill is a series of multiple blinds that you would run several days in a row, four or five days in a row, and then you would quit. You don't want to do it 10, you don't want to do it every day. And the first day you run them, you want to establish the line to the blind. So you may blow 20 whistles on each blind, but you want them to be perfect. And then the second day, you may only blow 10 whistles. And then the next day, you should blow less. And then by the end of the four or five days, they should line it. And what you're doing is you're establishing the line to the blind, and you're teaching them the rules around the water. Like I said, mainly on how to angle, angle exits, angle entries, over points, over spits in the water. you know, that's what you're really looking for, is teaching them how to be perfectly straight in the water.

John Gordon: Yeah, yeah. It really is. I think it really helps on their lining, too. It seems like getting lined up in the right position, right, to really do it.

Hunter Hastings: Sure it is, sure. And that's a, you know, that's a field trial deal, but that's still a big thing in hunt test, you know.

John Gordon: That's a big thing in hunt test and in hunting, too, to me, you know. I mean, a dog can, you know, people think, oh, I don't really care, you know, if my dog runs the bank or whatever. Well, sometimes that's not the shortest route, right? Not the best way to go about it. And if the dog was really properly trained in it, you wouldn't have an issue with it. So that I've always get hung up with that. Oh, I just got a meat dog kind of thing. Well, you know, I mean, you really need to have a well-trained dog. That's what you need.

Hunter Hastings: That's right. That's right. And like we said, you don't really know what you're missing until you see one.

John Gordon: Oh, it's the truth. Once again, folks. go to a hunt test, a local club, whatever, field trials, just really see what a really finished dog can do. Go watch a master test. I think you will see that these dogs can handle anything that's thrown at them. And to me, it's just always been a cop out to call a dog a meat dog and not do the work.

Hunter Hastings: Well, it's very addicting is what it is because once you have a dog that you enjoy training and you're putting forth the effort, and you're seeing improvement, then you get in your head, I've got to do it every day or I'm going to lose. He's going to go backwards. He's not going to be as sharp as he was. So to me, I couldn't handle that. So I'm wanting to be out there every day, at least maintaining what I've had, if not trying to get better. That way you don't lose all your hard work that you've done.

John Gordon: Right, right. Going back to the summer, Tom, so you were in the days of July and August. Are there any hard and fast rules you've got about as far as time of day, level of heat, where you just shut it down?

Hunter Hastings: I think it all depends on what you're doing and where you're at. I would be setting up when it was cracking daylight, and I would try to do it as early as I could, and I would try to be done as fast as I could. I'd watch cover. You don't want them to get out there and get to running around just because you don't want your bird boy to help or you don't want to handle. And they can get out there and get in trouble quick and you just not know it. And I've always said, when in doubt, don't. When they come back from the second bird and you're doing a triple and they're foggy and they're breathing heavy and they look out there and they're not real sure, just don't send them. You'll be better off just not sending them for the third bird.

John Gordon: I think that's a really good point. When in doubt, don't do it. You know, it's all too easy to, you know, you're, yeah, you're out there training and it's like, oh, well, dog will be fine. Right? And like you said, if a dog gets in trouble and for folks, once again, the dog's not sure about where the mark is, whatever, and they're, and they're really running around and hunting cover that, that, that really burns up a lot of energy and, and, and it could really lead to heat stress quickly if, if, if they get off on a, and they can't find the bird easily.

Hunter Hastings: Well, and another thing is your amateur groups and friends training together is where you really have to watch it because everybody wants their dog to look good, especially in front of their friends. So that's why people want to send their dog for that third bird, just because they want to finish what they started and they want to look good in front of their buddies, which I understand, but you got to be careful.

John Gordon: Gotta put your ego in your pocket sometimes, right? For sure, for sure. For the well-being of your animal.

Hunter Hastings: And not have an ego training dogs. They'll get rid of that.

John Gordon: Won't they, though? I mean, if you want to be humble, man, tell somebody, oh, man, my dog can do this and that and the other, and then do it. Try to do it in front of them, right? Try it when the owner shows up. Oh, yeah. That's a really good one there, that pros have to deal with all the time, right? He said, well, he was doing it fine yesterday. I don't know what happened. Oh, yeah. Videos, videos. That's right. Send them some videos when it's good, right? That's a big thing that the modern day trainers got that your average guy just didn't have even 20 years ago, right? Now everybody's got a phone in their pocket. They can just take a quick video. of the dog's progress in the past. You know, you had to set up cameras and everything else to really do all that. So I know that's been a tool for the trainer these days to use with their clients. Oh, yeah.

Hunter Hastings: That dog knows when the video comes out too, though.

John Gordon: Yeah, they seem to as well. Hey, look, you should try filming hunting videos all the time like I do, man. You want to talk about, you want to watch some stuff disappear?

Hunter Hastings: Yeah. Pull out a camera. I bet. I bet.

John Gordon: Any, you know, parting comments about it, you know, about what you think the most important thing is for summer conditioning with your dog?

Hunter Hastings: You know, I don't ever think that they truly get acclimated to the summer. You know, I think your setups and how you handle them is way more important than their physical shape. Now I understand they need to be in shape and they need to, you can't have them overweight, but you also need to be aware of your dog's physical, where they're at physically. You can get by a little more with a dog that's very in shape, but you also need to be able to say, well, my dog's not that in shape and I need to be smarter here. I need to be really cautious of what I'm doing. So that's probably what I would say more than You know, it just depends on your time and how much effort you're willing to put in, because some people can't be out there every day. So if you're only getting to train a couple of days a week, then you need to be cautious of what you put your dog through, for sure.

John Gordon: I think that's a good point. That's the thing that I would want someone to take away from this, is err always on the side of caution when you're talking about heat stress. When in doubt, when in doubt, don't send them. There you go. Well, that's great advice. From Hunter Hastings, my good buddy from Crockett, Texas at the gas station. Yeah, that's right. That's right. You know, Buster's been all over TV and film since then. Has he? How's he doing? Oh, yeah, man. Oh, he's doing fantastic, man. I mean, that dog is hunted. I hunted him in Canada last year, Maine, Idaho. You know, he's led to live the life of a superstar, really, man. I mean, he- The reason that I stopped is because he was a golden.

Hunter Hastings: If he'd have been alive, I probably just would have kept going.

John Gordon: That's right.

Hunter Hastings: Just kept on driving. I have a soft spot for goldens.

John Gordon: Yeah, I was talking, you talking about Ray Voigt, for folks that don't know, Ray works with Purina. He was Mike Lardy's right hand man for a long time, and he's a great chairman. He told me that the first dog he ever won with was a golden. I thought that was pretty cool. First dog I ever won with was a Fox Red Lab, which is about as rare as a golden. Yeah. In the field trial world, I never seen any Fox Red dogs, Charlie. I won my first two opens with the same dog, Fox Red. That's a hell of a dog, I'm sure.

Hunter Hastings: Yeah. It was a snapper son. His name's Chester.

John Gordon: I've seen that snapper dog. Okay. So that, yeah, that, uh, that, that was a, he was a pretty good sire. All right, folks, we can sit here and talk about dogs all day long, but, uh, we're gonna, we're gonna wrap it up. And, uh, I just want to thank Hunter Hastings for being on the Ducks Unlimited podcast. Thanks a lot, Hunter.

Hunter Hastings: Yeah, I appreciate you having me on.

John Gordon: I really enjoyed it. All right, folks. Hey, thanks for listening to the Ducks Unlimited podcast and supporting wetlands and waterfowl conservation.