Ep. 725 - Craft, Community, and Calls: Doug Nelson at Realfoot Lake
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Katie Burke:Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm your host Katie Burke. And today on the show, I have call maker Doug Nelson. Welcome to the show.
Doug Nelson:Thanks, Katie. Thanks for having me.
Katie Burke:Yep. We have to mention where we are because this is we're not in studio. You're not you're not at home calling me. So Nope. We are at Real Foot Lake, and what is going on here this weekend?
Doug Nelson:The Real Foot Waterfowl Festival.
Katie Burke:Okay. So how long has that been going on? Do you know?
Doug Nelson:You have to talk to some other guys for at least thirty years, I think. Thirty years. Yeah. Annual event.
Katie Burke:And have call makers always been coming to that event?
Doug Nelson:It is it's put on by the Callmaker and Collector Association of America, and they come from all over the country. I think today we got people coming from Colorado, Florida, all around here, the East Coast, just a little gathering of of people getting together to share their knowledge and have fun.
Katie Burke:Yeah. So this has always been put on by the call makers? Yes. Yeah. Okay.
Katie Burke:I have never been to Real Foot Lake, which is crazy.
Doug Nelson:I know. Quite a history.
Katie Burke:But I don't live that far away. I knew this was going on. And this so this is probably, I would assume, the oldest call making gathering because I I don't know. Is it old? I I don't know how long y'all have been going to Chicago, but I think this might be longer.
Katie Burke:We'll have to ask I
Doug Nelson:started coming here, I think, 2013. Okay. You know? And it's just been wonderful because I've built lifelong friendships. I've learned so much.
Doug Nelson:You can be in your own shop working, but when you get together with this many super talented people, the knowledge just flows.
Katie Burke:Yeah.
Doug Nelson:And Yeah. I've already learned some things just being here a couple hours. It's like, wow. Yeah.
Katie Burke:No. It's interesting. And we talk about that a lot, and we can talk about that more later, but we talk about that a lot in regards to, like, when you collect decoys and stuff. Like like, the biggest advice I think anybody gives when it comes to anything like this is, like, go see the stuff. Go pick it up.
Katie Burke:Go talk to those people. You know, that tends to be the most, like, advice anyone gives because you can look at stuff especially now, people look at stuff online and everything, but it's not the same. No. It'll never be the same.
Doug Nelson:You know, unlike when I was a kid growing up, all we could buy was false calls and old calls. There was nothing else. And I was in Colorado, and so I was I had never heard of call making competitions. You know? I heard about the Stuttgart, you know, championship and stuff, but I was really removed from all of that.
Doug Nelson:And you you know, you can't just walk in a store and pick up a duck call and blow it because people like different duck calls. Everybody blows them different. So you gotta find something that fits you. And that's what I love about here. If you wanna go find a really good call that fits you, there's a probably 30 call makers down there.
Doug Nelson:You can go test their stuff and have a look. You know?
Katie Burke:Yeah. That's cool. So does it mostly just to kinda give a little bit idea, is it mostly call makers that do more that do more the wooden, laminated, and carved calls here, or is there also just like the acrylic stuff as well? Is it is it both?
Doug Nelson:A little above. A little bit both. But more custom people.
Katie Burke:Custom. Okay.
Doug Nelson:More small shop guys. And you know, they're not in it in the business so much as it's just a myriad of everything. For most of them, they're hobbyists, and but there are quite a few very successful
Katie Burke:Yeah.
Doug Nelson:Lawmakers here.
Katie Burke:Yeah. And that's unique about this because as well, like, when you go to Call Palooza, I would say it leans a little more toward less towards the custom and more towards the
Doug Nelson:Right. Yeah. And and this is a different format. This is three you know, two to three days of just just sit with people and shoot the bull and have a great time and build friendships, and and it just all flows together. It's just a relaxed atmosphere, which is unusual versus the big shows.
Katie Burke:Yeah. And it's so pretty here. Like, you're right here on the lake, and Yeah. It's really nice setting.
Doug Nelson:And then we have a competition for the best sounding calls, and they have professional and amateur division. Okay. And there's all you win is a ribbon. You know, there's no money involved. There's bragging Yeah.
Doug Nelson:Bragging rights. And that's what makes it fun. Yeah.
Katie Burke:Yeah. And now you're doing it with your these are your like, that's one thing I don't I try to, like, tell people that I didn't know because I came in from the Ducks Unlimited side which has this it in itself between volunteers has, a big community side to it. Like, there is, like, it's, I mean, it's a part of my family and always has been. Yeah. But this also has that community as well.
Katie Burke:It's just they don't necessarily are the same. Like, you can get the same community there as you can. It's a little bit different here, but it also has a very big community, a lot of friends.
Doug Nelson:Oh, yeah.
Katie Burke:These peep yeah. Everyone here is, like, friendly and
Doug Nelson:It's It's The the thing that I think I like the most is my mentors are here, and I mentor people here. We're all sharing our knowledge, you know, and, it's priceless. Yeah. Where else can you go to get together with that many people? There are such talented individuals here and a lot of stuff that everybody's unique.
Doug Nelson:We're all woodworkers or or metal shop workers or or artists, basically, but everybody's got a different way of doing Everybody's got their own little handmade jig that they make this or they make that, and you share the knowledge and it's it's like, wow. I haven't thought of that,
Katie Burke:you know,
Doug Nelson:and it is just fun.
Katie Burke:That's really cool. Alright. So let's go back and let's talk kind of how you got into all of this. So where did you grow up?
Doug Nelson:I grew up around Greeley, Colorado. Okay. My dad didn't hunt. My brother-in-law was a hunter safety instructor. He took me under his wing, started me shooting guns about nine years old, and and he didn't hunt ducks or geese either.
Doug Nelson:But I I had a a junior high outdoor rec teacher that took me under his wing to show me duck hunting, and he was an old guy. His dad was a market hunter. His grandpa was a market hunter.
Katie Burke:Where? Back Back no. Back east. I'll stay. Okay.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. And he was even telling me stories about using live decoys. Yeah. And he had one rule in his blind was don't shoot a hen or you're not coming back because they grew up when there were no ducks. Yep.
Doug Nelson:No. And he taught me a lot. And, you know, so I blew a few duck calls and stuff. And my first duck hunt was great. My grandpa took me out and I was, I think, 11.
Doug Nelson:And I had saved up and bought six decoys, mowing lawns and stuff. And I took my six decoys and my little folks WA33 call, and I went down to this little warm water slough along the South Platte River, threw my decoys out. My grandpa took a nap in the car about 300 yards away, and I wasn't there five minutes and here came a flock of widget right past me and I'm all You know, everybody starts out with H and R single shot 20 gauge.
Katie Burke:Oh yeah.
Doug Nelson:I stood up and I popped the most beautiful Drake Widgin you ever saw.
Katie Burke:That's a good first duck.
Doug Nelson:I was so excited. I went back and woke my grandpa up and held that up to the window. Oh my God, I was hooked for life. Yeah. Know?
Doug Nelson:That's a good first duck. Yeah. And duck hunting was great back in the seventies because we could get out of high school and run down and knock on the door and sure boys shut the gate when you're done. Yeah. Now those places are $25 a year at least.
Doug Nelson:It's all gone, But I was glad to be able to experience it.
Katie Burke:Yeah. You know, there's a little bit of that. My brother lived in Casper, Wyoming.
Doug Nelson:Oh, sure. I know it well.
Katie Burke:Yeah. And he we still did it when I would go up. We could still hunt that way because there's just not
Doug Nelson:Hunt the North Platte River.
Katie Burke:Yeah. There's just not enough duck hunters up there Yeah. That people weren't looking for. But you just drive around your truck, and you see them going into a little wherever their eye it wasn't frozen.
Doug Nelson:Right.
Katie Burke:And then you go knock on someone door, they're like, yeah. It's fun.
Doug Nelson:Sure. You know? And and things changed. Colorado had never had Canada geese Yep. Because they always went to New Mexico.
Doug Nelson:Right. And and we short stopped them. A guy named Gurney Crawford started with a flock of a 100 captive geese on College Lake in Fort Collins. And that grew into the geese stopping there. Yep.
Doug Nelson:And I remember the very first goose season in Colorado, they gave you six neck tags.
Katie Burke:Okay. Yeah. When you
Doug Nelson:used up those, you were done. Yeah. And I think I was 14, and I I paid $10 to lease a box blind right across from the big refuge in Windsor, Colorado Yeah. In Severns, Colorado. And my first, you know, it was past shooting.
Doug Nelson:I was by myself, 14 years old, my 12 gauge sitting in that box and here came a flock of geese and I dropped one. And I remember shooting it. I don't even remember. All I remember is seeing it hit the ground and I was, my god, my mom come out to pick me up. I was my goose.
Doug Nelson:I was so excited. So then I turned into a goose hunter. Yeah. Because the duck hunting gradually has gone away for you know, winter to leased up and everything, and but we could still hunt Canada geese. Now they have around 300,000 to 400,000 that winter there.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. Fantastic.
Katie Burke:Yeah. It's really interesting. So we just actually did a big book, and project on Canada geese and their story and how, now it's interesting to think about because, like, we it's it also goes with this big decoy collection, and there's no decoys from that area. There's no, like, decoys in the Central
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:Flyaway, but the history of the Central Flyaway and goose hunting is so interesting conservation wise. It completely changed. It just it was I mean, at one point, they were killing geese in, like, South Texas, and now they went away. And now they're killing them, like, you know, they weren't killing them at all. Now they
Doug Nelson:you're talking Things change.
Katie Burke:Oh, yeah. Those are the most adaptable birds.
Doug Nelson:Yes.
Katie Burke:They will they will fig they will be around before we're gone. Like, they are so adaptable.
Doug Nelson:They are, I've done a lot of work with Canada geese. Yeah. You know? I banded ducks for Game and Fish for a long time. I banded 12,000 ducks one summer.
Katie Burke:Oh, wow. Yeah. That's lot of work.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. It was ten days on and four days off. And I think I caught two seventy blue wing teal in one trap at one time. It took me like four or five hours to ban them all. That was fun, but I learned a lot.
Doug Nelson:The call making, I never thought I'd be a call maker.
Katie Burke:Yeah. When did you skipping ahead, but when did you even know that it was a thing to make calls? Because, like, that's well, I mean, as someone who grew up in Mississippi, we don't really have a decoy making or a call make I mean, they do now. There's more call makers in that area now, but there's just not really a history of it in the Delta. So I didn't realize until I was in my twenties, late a lot later.
Doug Nelson:So I was never exposed to it
Katie Burke:at all.
Doug Nelson:Well, my wife and I were both woodworkers. I mean, we'd been woodworking. I bought her a router and that started it. Then it was a chop saw. And now we have a full woodshop.
Doug Nelson:Okay. And I don't know, 02/2005, Ed Glenn, they came out with a book on making duck calls. Okay. And we were down at the woodworkers show and I saw that book and I picked it up and I looked at that and I thought, oh heck, I already got all the tools to do that. Give me that book.
Doug Nelson:You know? The first goose call I made worked, and I was hooked. Yeah. That was it. I became a goose call guy.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. I just I
Katie Burke:mean, you were goose hunting. So Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. So did you kill a goose with that first like, when you took it out that first call, or did it take a little bit?
Doug Nelson:I don't remember.
Katie Burke:You don't remember?
Doug Nelson:Yeah. No. You know? But because I couldn't blow a short read worth of for worth of being. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:And then I had some mentors. You know, one of my guide and outfitter guys showed me some stuff, and I gradually worked into it. But once I could make one that worked, I had so much fun, you know, because I'd just go out and it was a hobby, just something to goof around with, you know? And duck calls are a completely different thing. Duck calls frustrated me.
Doug Nelson:I threw away buckets full of inserts trying to make a duck call. And I had no mentors out in Colorado to help me. Right. You know? And I'd come here to the contest and I'd show the guys my call.
Doug Nelson:And Brian Byers would blow my call and he'd look at me and say, The reed's too long. Slap my forehead. Two years ago, I finally figured it out. At this point. I've How many years messed with it for fifteen years and I just kept making goose calls because they drove me crazy.
Doug Nelson:Two years ago, I finally figured this duck call tone board stuff out and I'm really happy. It's kind of fun. But I also make cow elk calls. I dabble sense with the Colorado background. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:And I dabbled a little recently making some morning dove calls, which was fun. And but the the elk calls and the goose calls are would be would be my bread and butter, just, you know, hobby stuff. And
Katie Burke:Yeah. So I'm guessing so at what point did you so okay. Well, let's go back because I Yeah. I wanna get into that more. But so you mentioned a little bit about so after, like, learning to hunt in Colorado and all that, and then you mentioned a little bit about banning ducks.
Katie Burke:So where did you go career wise, like, from there? Like, is that I
Doug Nelson:feel like we
Katie Burke:just skipped over a lot of important stuff.
Doug Nelson:Career wise, I had a degree of wildlife biology. Okay.
Katie Burke:From where did Colorado you go to
Doug Nelson:State University. Okay. And it was fun. Worked for Game and Fish banning ducks. I kinda- So
Katie Burke:where did you ban ducks? Were you banning ducks up
Doug Nelson:in Colorado? In In San Luis Valley in North Park. Okay. So I'd spend five days in San Luis Valley and down there we would ban cinnamon teal and a lot of redheaded ducks. And then up in North Park, Colorado, we we'd band a lot of mallards, lot of pintails.
Doug Nelson:And but I saw an incredible the ducks were great on these properties. There were a lot of private duck 1976. Okay. Yeah. One interesting thing is an old game warden came out and they told us we had to band hand mallards.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. And it was during the molt and they weren't flying. Right. And he says, I'll show you how to catch hand mallards. And we use a salt plains duck trap, which is an L shaped box.
Doug Nelson:You set it in about six, eight inches of water. And I'll show you. We went out and we put it right along the edge of a whole bunch of cattails. Then he took a bucket of corn and he went down the side of the cattails for 50 yards with the corn and let them It's like leading them back to the trap.
Katie Burke:Candy trail.
Doug Nelson:We came out the next morning and there were 40 hand mallards in that trap. And I'm like, you're kidding me. You know? So you learn a lot and it's always neat to hear from the old guys how to do stuff. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. You just left a
Katie Burke:candy trail.
Doug Nelson:So I I had done taxidermy as a hobby. I became a professional taxidermist. I
Katie Burke:So when did you do that? So what I Why did you transfer over from or what was the yeah. What was your so you were hobbying taxidermy. Correct? So how did you pick up that?
Doug Nelson:One of my duck hunting buddies, dad, did taxidermy for a hobby, so he took us under his wing and showed
Katie Burke:us how he doing. A very naturally curious person, I'm guessing.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. My mom was real artistic too. I was always raised doing arts and crafts and stuff. I just liked doing things. And so taxidermy wise, got out of college.
Doug Nelson:Game and fish, I didn't wanna work for them anymore because they laid me off because of affirmative action. I didn't like that. So I thought maybe I'll give taxidermy a try. I went to American Institute of Taxidermy, Janesville, Wisconsin, learned how, and opened up a taxidermy business. I got into it.
Doug Nelson:I was founding president of the Colorado Taxiderm Association. We started it off with Anno Vanveen from Jonah's Brothers and Barry Smith from Alpine Taxonomy. A lot of people, we all got together and started it. It's still going. Oh yeah.
Doug Nelson:They're still rolling.
Katie Burke:Oh, good.
Doug Nelson:And then I got on the board of directors, National Tax Derm Association for a couple of years. And it's the same as the call making, mentors and meeting people and trading tips and swap, you know, swapping stuff. I did that for ten years and I burned out.
Katie Burke:Yeah. And so you're primarily doing like private stuff, I'm guessing, with some museum, like with some museum stuff in there.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. I Yeah. It was basically for the public. Yeah. And we did a little museum restoration work.
Doug Nelson:We did a lot of cleaning of old rugs, you know, stuff like that. Little African restoration, little African, just a whole menagerie of stuff, you know? So I was trained in everything, but it just got to the point where it turned from a labor of love into labor.
Katie Burke:Yeah.
Doug Nelson:I remember skinning around 300 fish and I was like, I'd go home, and I'm like, honey, I hate this. Hate that one. So I left. Yeah. I just stopped and walked and gave my notice and went and found another career.
Katie Burke:What did you go do then?
Doug Nelson:Oh gosh. I sold fishing equipment for a year. I tried selling cars. I was too honest for that. And I had a buddy in the grocery business.
Doug Nelson:I got into dairy manager and grocery business My for five family had always been in the office supply business since 1936 in Colorado and got a call from my brother to go back out into the family business. I did on one condition. I had to start at the bottom and work my way up and learn everything.
Katie Burke:Oh, wow.
Doug Nelson:And I was there
Katie Burke:You're not this is it's really interesting.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:You're not afraid to just change. No. That's so interesting. Yeah. It Most people aren't willing to do something like that.
Katie Burke:They're too scared to just kinda
Doug Nelson:Well, we were in Northern Colorado or, I mean, Northern Wisconsin, and my I looked at my wife and says, you wanna move to Colorado? And she says, hell yeah. Let's go.
Katie Burke:Yeah. That's amazing.
Doug Nelson:I love
Katie Burke:this. Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, most people are too afraid of the unknown to kinda, like, just shake up their life that way, and you've done it you've done it so many times. It's like is it just not a bit you don't think about it?
Katie Burke:You just
Doug Nelson:No.
Katie Burke:It's I I guess You just trust that it it will work out?
Doug Nelson:I've been a risk taker.
Katie Burke:Yeah.
Doug Nelson:You don't get ahead if you don't try.
Katie Burke:Yeah. I agree.
Doug Nelson:I heard something that made a impact on me that is, you know, you hear people that, oh, I tried this, but I was no good at it.
Katie Burke:Yeah.
Doug Nelson:And the thing is, it's not that you're no good at it. Just trying it alone makes you a more interesting person and nothing to lose.
Katie Burke:Yeah. I mean, you you've definitely proven that with your fifteen years going after the duck call.
Doug Nelson:So Oh, yeah.
Katie Burke:You can't get good at something if you don't keep working at it.
Doug Nelson:Right. And I've spent so much time trying to figure out wood finishes and things like that, being a woodworker too. I've never made an acrylic call. Yeah. I just like wood, real wood.
Doug Nelson:No.
Katie Burke:It makes sense.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. And
Katie Burke:With your background too, like Yeah. Doing it that way. Okay. So, yeah, that's just really interesting. You just I don't you don't hear from many people that do that and Right.
Katie Burke:Just are okay with that.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:Wow. So okay. So what point so in all of your during all this, when do you start? Like so you said you were woodworking first. So have you been woodworking throughout this whole time?
Doug Nelson:Well, you know, being a taxidermist is kind of a jack of
Katie Burke:all trades. Yeah. I'm guessing you're kind of doing a little bit of everything.
Doug Nelson:You do everything there. It's just a combination of all the different arts. And I introduced my wife to woodworking and it just gradually grew into a hobby for both of us. She did my kitchen cabinets. Okay.
Doug Nelson:And here I'm making goose calls, and she's building furniture. Okay. So we just gradually
Katie Burke:So what did you start with before calls? What were you doing woodworking wise? Were you doing more furniture or what were you driving?
Doug Nelson:No, started doing a little remodeling of the house, tying a groove cedar walls and stuff like that, and then making a little of this. Then I got a lathe.
Katie Burke:Okay.
Doug Nelson:Got her a lathe, and she's making bowls. And I gradually ended up taking over her lathe. Yeah. Those things. I'm in Dutch for that.
Doug Nelson:But know, lathes are really fun. Yeah. Just turning wood is really fun. And then I saw the book on making goose duck calls, I'm like, I can do that. Yeah.
Katie Burke:And you're already hunting and stuff, so.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. Yeah. It kinda came naturally. It's a labor of love. It's for fun.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. I don't wanna do it for a business. No. I don't wanna do custom orders because I don't like the pressure. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:I build stuff I like. If they want it, great. You know? We wanna trade for something, great. You know?
Katie Burke:But I get that. I mean, I do. I get that a lot. Like, I went to school, which people listening have heard this probably a million times, but like, I went to school for art and I I quickly realized that wasn't not that I wasn't good at it, but, like, that I mean, there I wasn't as good as some of those people. Like, I was like, oh, I'm not gonna but I did like it being told what to do.
Katie Burke:Uh-huh. I don't I don't like drawing things for people. Like, every once in while someone asks me to, like, do a pet or something like that, I'm like, no. I just have no desire. If I wanna do it, I'll do it, and I'll give it to you.
Katie Burke:And if you like it, that's fine. If you don't, you don't. But I just don't I don't do it for anyone else.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:Yeah. I do. It's it's just I enjoy it. It's fun.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:And I don't want it to not be fun.
Doug Nelson:Hats off to the people that will take on custom orders and do it. Since I do it for a hobby and for fun, I don't need to. I have done a few. I've had some friends where I'll do something for their kid for his birthday or something, but I basically build a couple and let them pick their choice. Right.
Doug Nelson:Right.
Katie Burke:It's a
Doug Nelson:little easier. Now the laminated stuff's a whole different ballgame.
Katie Burke:Yeah. And we'll get into that. Yeah. Alright. Well, let's, let's take a quick break and then we'll get into the nitty gritty of all the call banking part of it.
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Katie Burke:Alright. Welcome back. I am here with Doug Nelson and we're gonna kinda I wanna talk now more about your call making. So you get that book and so in that book, did you like kind of did they have goose make call making in there or did you just think that's what I wanna do, so I wanna take this and then adapt it over to to what I want? Like take a regular goose call.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. I think so. You know, I it helped me figure out the duck call part, I tried, but the goose calls was easy because I had the right tools for it.
Katie Burke:Okay.
Doug Nelson:Because goose balls are basically how you counterbore the exhaust in a barrel. You know? Okay. Goosebumps are all about the counter boring inside the volume that makes the the gut pick the reed up and make the noise.
Katie Burke:Yeah. So were you just kind of working looking at commercial calls to start? Yeah.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. I I I examined. I had, like, a couple different ones, and I couldn't look and see what they had been doing. And it was really fun figuring out that process. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:It really was because
Katie Burke:You're kinda de like, kind of like reverse engineering
Doug Nelson:something. And how I kinda figured it out to get it right is I I made a really long barrel, you know, and I had counterbored it inside. And I'd put it in and blow it and it wouldn't work. And I'd cut it off an eighth of an inch and see if it was any better. And I finally learned how to get the exact volume that works with that set of guts.
Doug Nelson:And it's just everything affects everything. Duck calls are worse or harder, but goose calls are fairly easy once you understand the basics of them. You know?
Katie Burke:I'm guessing when you're starting, you're just making a functioning goose call. Your you're Right. Your goal is to make a good sounding goose call for a while.
Doug Nelson:And I probably made 50 before I came up with a shape I like. Yeah. I got a whole pile of old ones. The first ones, they're all sitting in a big box somewhere, you know, and and nobody wants them, But it was fun learning. And learning how to I've done O rings inside the call then gut search.
Doug Nelson:I hooked up with Wade Carpenter from Web Calls, and he only lived about three hours from me in Colorado. And he actually come out goose hunt with me, and and he showed me a lot. Yeah. And he sold the the guts and the gut search and the things I needed, and that that made a huge difference. At least somebody I could talk to local that
Katie Burke:Yeah. So you're going through it, and you're basically making a good sounding call first. So at what point do you start to make them more decorative and or learn about competitions and other makers? So, like Yeah. What comes first?
Katie Burke:You trying to make them more decorative or, like, learning about these other things?
Doug Nelson:I think I learned and joined the CCAA, the Callmaker Collector Association.
Katie Burke:You where did you hear about them?
Doug Nelson:Just basically, we started getting online and learning online. And and and then I met people, I think 2000 Let me think about this. 2013, my wife bought a brand new Mustang and wanted to drive it. So we did a road trip to Real Foot.
Katie Burke:Okay. Yeah. And
Doug Nelson:it was a hoot. Yeah. That's where I met a bunch of friends here. Yeah. And then the next year, she didn't wanna go, so I flew to Memphis, rented a car, did that a couple years.
Katie Burke:Yep. Mhmm. It's not a bad drive. I did it this morning.
Doug Nelson:And then when I retired, 2022, we were we we decided to up and move from Colorado, and we moved just 60 miles west to Real Foot Lake without our dream property up there. So now instead of a two day drive, I have a 90 mile drive. Yeah. That's nothing. Love it.
Katie Burke:And it's nice. You go through all these little country roads and stuff.
Doug Nelson:Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I don't miss the wind and the snow.
Katie Burke:My husband's from Massachusetts, and people always ask him all the time if he wants to go back north, and he's like, no, I don't need to shovel snow ever again. Right. I'm okay with that.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. But it's kinda how I ended up out here. Yeah. As for the laminating part, the guy that wrote one of the coauthored the book on making duck calls is Ed Glenn. Ed Glenn is known for his laminating.
Doug Nelson:And I saw his work. And then I contacted him to learn more. And he sent me some articles that he'd written and things like that. I started playing with it. And he encouraged me, you know, and I did a few trades with him and things like that.
Doug Nelson:But just having him to encourage me and then one thing that really got me going is they used to have a forum online called the THO, T H O, THO Forum. And I got a message from Charlie Hess, who's like the grand master guy that invented the short read.
Katie Burke:Okay.
Doug Nelson:And he says, I like your work. Keep going. Oh, man. It made my heart thump. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:Cool. And so I started gluing wood together, having a little fun. And I liked it.
Katie Burke:How was those first ones? Were they
Doug Nelson:Awesome. Took two inches. Ed taught me the tricks on putting the segments together to make designs, and I think I took a second place in 2007 with a call at the CCAA show. That was at Where was it? St.
Doug Nelson:Charles, Illinois. And the next year I entered a match set in the amateurs, and I won best in class. And I'm like, you're kidding me. They kicked me out of amateurs forever after that. Then I have to compete against the big boys.
Doug Nelson:But that called, they I learned a lot. So I started challenging myself to see what I could do. Right here on the table, I'll show you. I got a call. It's it's 890 pieces of wood put together.
Katie Burke:809. Yeah. Approximately, you have to count it again. I'll put a picture up on
Doug Nelson:Took a hundred hours. I get off of work, spend an hour putting together a 24 segment ring and drink a beer, and I did that for like a hundred days.
Katie Burke:Okay. So I have a question. Yeah. When you're putting this together, right, like, so Yep. If a listener can imagine, obviously, it's tiny pieces, I'd say I mean, they're like the size of a chicklet, but you're having because a call is rounded.
Katie Burke:Right? So you're putting it together not as a block, but as a you're having to put it as
Doug Nelson:a I'm building rings like a pie.
Katie Burke:Like a ring. Yeah. You're having to do a pie.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. And these happen this one happen to be 24 segment rings, which I drew it out on graph paper, some American Indian design, and oh, did I learn a lot. Yeah. I was still learning, but I just took my time. It's not perfect.
Doug Nelson:I look at it instantly and I see the errors in it. And since then, I've corrected a lot of those errors and figured out how to get around it. But, basically you're building imagine you're taking a circle, looks like a pie. It could be six, eight segments, whatever. And I drill a hole through the middle, five eighths inch hole.
Doug Nelson:Then I make another one that's gonna match that in the pattern, drill a hole. Then I put glue on them, put a metal rod through them and glue them together.
Katie Burke:Yeah. Okay.
Doug Nelson:And clamp them, keep going, do more, take a stack of two and a stack of two, glue them together. Yeah. And eventually, you build a blank.
Katie Burke:Yeah.
Doug Nelson:And when
Katie Burke:you're on gotta be in a big I'm gonna say, yeah, it's a pie. It's a circle.
Doug Nelson:It's Yeah. It's a big circle kinda it's just
Katie Burke:because I I mean, you've seen laminated ones where they've built it in a in a cube.
Doug Nelson:Right.
Katie Burke:And then, like, you get different sizes, but this is all exactly the same.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. This is it's wild. Yeah.
Katie Burke:That's it's so impressive. And
Doug Nelson:The designs you can come up with are up to your imagination. The the scariest part was after a hundred hours putting it on the lathe and turning it round. I had on a full face mask and body armor. I didn't know if it was gonna blow up on me or not. And I took my time with that.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. You would. And it's nerve racking, but it's really cool when you get done and you look at it and go, wow.
Katie Burke:Well, because there's this there's this percentage of it could like, it could be a disaster. Yeah. And you've already put so much work into it. Say, this debate, I was thinking about when you were talking about how you would, like, have to be you you grafted out and measured everything to put in. It was like, you know, when you're, like, woodwork and they always tell you to measure twice and cut once, this puts that to a whole new level.
Katie Burke:Like, it's a
Doug Nelson:I there is one error on that call and I'm not gonna show anybody where it is. No. No. Yeah. Well, yeah,
Katie Burke:it puts a whole new meaning to the measure measure choice cut one. Because I bet you had to keep measuring this over and over again.
Doug Nelson:Well, they're eight inch eight inch thick segments. Yeah. So it
Katie Burke:No. That's amazing. Yeah. One thing I've always noticed is talking to a lot of whether they're decoy carvers or call makers, there are influential people along the way that have helped you. And you mentioned the one guy that helped you, like, with the sound stuff early out of Colorado.
Katie Burke:But who are these people and where how did you come across them? Where did you find them along the way?
Doug Nelson:Well, mainly through the Callmaker Collector Association. And and the old THO forum on the web was fantastic.
Katie Burke:Yeah. I never heard That was This is the first time
Doug Nelson:this That was was all that was available out there in the, I guess it would be early 2000s. And so a lot of the older guys here, everybody remembers that.
Katie Burke:Yeah.
Doug Nelson:It was a great source of information. It's gone now, but Facebook, everything else, you know? And Ed Glenn helped me a bunch. Billy Hayes, old time duck call maker. Billy took me under his wing.
Doug Nelson:Billy had all these crazy ideas about gluing wood together. He'd call me on the phone and just start going. And we would we would, you know, come up with different ideas together. I met him in person here at Real Lake Real Foot Lake, the only time I ever met him. You know?
Doug Nelson:All these guys that are here, Ron Gould, Brian Byers, you know, all there's everybody here has contributed to something of what I know. Yeah. And I like to help them too. Because I'm not in the business. I have no secrets.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. I won't teach anybody anything because
Katie Burke:I feel like that part of call making has gone away. Like, you know, if you talk about these early days, like, particularly, like, some of the Arkansas guys, you talk about the early days of call making, and it was a lot of secrecy. For example, Mike Lewis talks about oh gosh, I just forgot his name, that he learned from, and he would have to he made the rebel call. Yeah. Crazy.
Katie Burke:I can't think of his name. But he would he would call him and ask for advice and he'd be like he would give him, like, vague answers and he was like, well, you could come over here, but and I won't tell you, but you could
Doug Nelson:Now we have YouTube.
Katie Burke:Right. And, like, so but they were kinda secretive and I feel like, which is good. I think it shouldn't be secretive. I think it's good people are kinda more open and
Doug Nelson:Well, maybe it's because of my taxonomy background. Yeah. You know, it never hurts to light another candle. Never hurts to teach somebody something.
Katie Burke:No. Well Doesn't hurt
Doug Nelson:me any, You know? Yeah.
Katie Burke:Also, like, it doesn't. And if you want a tradition to continue, you have to teach people. You have to encourage people.
Doug Nelson:There's a lot of old timers. We don't wanna lose that knowledge. No. Thing I like especially is I'll come up with a problem and or show somebody how to do it, and then somebody comes up with a better way to do it, I get to learn that, and we all win. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:Love it. It's like, cool. How'd you do that?
Katie Burke:Because everyone has their own unique way to solve problems. So if you give them a hint towards a solution, then they're gonna take it and put in their own thing. It's gonna continue
Doug Nelson:to evolve. Call making, we're we're working with people that are innovators. Yeah. Everybody that's here figures stuff out on their own, and there's 50 different ways to do something. But it's really fun learning, how do you do that?
Doug Nelson:You know? Yeah.
Katie Burke:Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. So who else along the way we just mentioned that changed you that changed the way you became calls?
Doug Nelson:Joshua Lynn came over to my shop. I had a duck call that I made fifteen years earlier, and he picked it up and he blew it. And I thought, oh, it's a piece of crap. You know? And he says, wow.
Doug Nelson:You should've entered that at Real Foot. I'm like, you're kidding me. And all I had to do is open up the exhaust on it a little bit. When I entered it last year and won first place amateurs, I was like, you're kidding me. But he spent two hours with me and basically opened my eyes and solved my problem with tone boards.
Doug Nelson:And now I'm off to the races. I'm building them, and they actually work. And I'm I can't lock them up anymore, which makes me really happy.
Katie Burke:Yeah. That's really exciting. Yeah. I do wanna do because you talk about the sound and stuff, and and we were gonna do it today, but our camera guy is sick, so we're not gonna do it. But I wanna do a visual podcast where we talk about tone boards and the science behind all that because it's so specific and I don't think people really understand.
Katie Burke:I mean, they're musical instruments. They are. Yeah. You're making a musical instrument.
Doug Nelson:And you're learning about which woods work good and which ones don't. You can go out here to the show and pick up a dozen different duck calls, and every tone board's different. There's long ones. There's short ones. There's fat ones.
Doug Nelson:There's skinny ones. You know? There's but they all work or supposed to work. Or you might find that your dream duck call, you know, you might blow 30 duck calls and finally find that one that fits your style. Well, you know, it's not a one size fits all thing.
Katie Burke:No. Yeah. Because everybody blows air differently, basically. Yeah. You know?
Katie Burke:Yeah. Like
Doug Nelson:Yeah. And then
Katie Burke:Well, I always laugh because we were talking about old calls earlier. My dad still blows a d two old. That's all he'll ever blow. He'll ever blow another call. I can't blow a d two old to save my life.
Katie Burke:I can't I don't have the lungs
Doug Nelson:Right.
Katie Burke:To get behind that call. Like, I can't do it. I don't know how he does it. But, yeah, he won't we had to buy him, like, a case of them back when the right when the factory closed.
Doug Nelson:Right.
Katie Burke:So he can't have them for the rest of his life.
Doug Nelson:And, you know, and then duck hunting. Yeah. Ducks are every day's different. Yeah. Some days, all they wanna hear is four or five quacks when they're going over the head, and some days they don't wanna hear a call at all.
Doug Nelson:And some days you scare them all away, some days you get them all to come, but that's why they call hunting, I guess.
Katie Burke:Have you been hunting since you've moved out here a little bit? No. You have not?
Doug Nelson:No. I've got an outfitter friend of mine that's actually gonna take me this year. Good. Yeah. Over he has 5,000 acres.
Doug Nelson:They farm over by the Black River.
Katie Burke:Yeah. It's very different.
Doug Nelson:And he's he's he owns a gun store. He got to be a good friend, and he says, come on. I'll take you this
VO:year. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:So I actually bought my ducks stamped this year.
Katie Burke:Oh, good.
Doug Nelson:And we'll go sit and yeah, I don't care if I shoot one or not. I might even get some bismuth shot and take my old 20 gauge single shot H and R out there and Honestly, get one shot at
Katie Burke:it doesn't even matter anymore.
Doug Nelson:I shot so many ducks. My senior high school in '74, '73, me and two friends shot 300 Mallards that year. We had a ball.
Katie Burke:Yeah, bet you too.
Doug Nelson:And we didn't pay for any leases or anything. We just got out of school and went and shot them,
Katie Burke:you know?
Doug Nelson:Good old days.
Katie Burke:Yeah. That's fun.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. So I don't care if I shoot a duck or not. It's just sitting in the blind. I love to watch them come in, and it's just the whole atmosphere.
Katie Burke:That's fun.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. It doesn't matter. And tell tall stories.
Katie Burke:Yes. Oh, yeah. That's very true. Through your time, honey, and all this and call making, do you have any stories that you'd want to share or that I wanna hear?
Doug Nelson:I can
Katie Burke:I know Brian mentioned one? Brian Byers mentioned one that you should tell, so let's go with that one.
Doug Nelson:I can tell stories for hours.
Katie Burke:Yeah. Let's go with the one Brian requested a story, so let's go with that one.
Doug Nelson:This is my PETA PETA story, People for Ethical Treatment of Animals. Yes. So about fifteen years ago, I was a on the road salesman.
Katie Burke:Okay.
Doug Nelson:I'm in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Got my shirt and tie on, driving down the street, and I look over at Kentucky Fried Chicken. Here's a guy in a chicken suit and all these girls protesting Kentucky Fried Chicken. And I realized it was PETA, People for Ethical Treatment Animals. Went and saw a customer and I thought, you know, I gotta go back and yank their chain.
Doug Nelson:So I drove back there and I pulled in at a quarter to 12 Kentucky Fried Chicken. There was not a single customer, and they're all out front protesting. And I walked in the door, you know, got my tie on and everything, and I looked at the guy and says, I would like a small box of chicken, please. And he says, are you with them? And I said, oh, hell no.
Doug Nelson:I can't stand them. I'm gonna go make me a picket sign and eat chicken in front of them. He says, really? And I says, yeah. And he says, here man on the house, go get him.
Doug Nelson:Hands me a box of chicken. I says, you betcha. And walked out to my truck, I sold office supplies for a living.
Katie Burke:Okay, yes. You had all
Doug Nelson:this Well, I had a big old box in here and a big giant jumbo marker. So I made me a sign and it kind of looked like a Chick fil A sign, but this is before Chick fil A, and it said, ignore pita. Eat chicken. Grabbed me a drumstick, walked out on the sidewalk right next to them. Now you gotta remember, this is Cheyenne, Wyoming.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. They're not exactly popular people in Cheyenne, Wyoming.
Katie Burke:No. I would say they're and it's it's surprising that they're in Cheyenne, Wyoming.
Doug Nelson:I had so much fun. You know, he'd come over, try to talk to the system. Would get away from me. I'd say, get away from me, you know? But I filled that restaurant full of ranchers in twenty minutes.
Doug Nelson:At least 50 trucks pulled in, they mauled the place. Yeah. And it was so much fun. I remember I was looking over at the front door and here's this 90 year old rancher with a cane to stand there with a piece of chicken. I could hear him and he's yelling, what the hell's wrong with you?
Doug Nelson:Yelling at him, you know? And I looked up and here came the newspaper reporters running down the street, who are you? What you doing? I'm Doug Nelson. I was just driving by, figured it was a good day for a piece of chicken, and I made the front pages of Cheyenne paper full color the next morning eating chicken and with this steaming mad pita guy behind me.
Katie Burke:Did you keep it? The pita did you keep the paper?
Doug Nelson:Yeah. I got it. It is so much fun. Yeah. You know?
Doug Nelson:But that's one of the funnier things I've done. I do that again in a heartbeat too.
Katie Burke:So when they come when people come to the museum because we're in the Pyramids, so, like, you get a a big like, in the wintertime, I'd say we have mostly hunters, but in the summer, you get tourists from all over the place.
Doug Nelson:Right.
Katie Burke:One of the biggest questions we always get from people, and I always find it so funny because they're always like it makes sense once they, like, hear the answer, but they're always like, well, I don't get it. You save ducks, but you kill ducks. I'm like, that's not and like I go, honestly, though, it's like, we were started by hunters and hunters are what give the I hate to tell you, but hunters give the most money to conservation than any other group, like, when I tell them that. I'm like like, because they want the resource around more than anybody. Like, if there's no ducks, they can't hunt.
Katie Burke:So and they're always, like, surprised, but, like, for the most part, it's a nice reaction, but it's like, oh, that makes perfect sense. But no one expects that to be my answer.
Doug Nelson:Nobody pays more for conservation than the hunters. They fund the game and fish departments, you know, hunting and fishing license sales, everything. It's all interconnected. And Ducks Unlimited, that or private You don't have to a duck hunter. Any private citizen can give money to Ducks Unlimited or corporate.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:And wetlands.
Doug Nelson:Their money goes straight into building habitat. And if you don't have habitat, you don't have and it's not just ducks. You don't have any of the wildlife
Katie Burke:Wildlife that live and all water birds.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:Yeah. It it is surprising to how many people I guess when you grow up in it, don't even think about it, but how many people don't even think about that?
Doug Nelson:With my degree in wildlife biology, I understand it completely. Yeah. I'm I'm really attuned to what's going on in Africa right now because over there, the professional hunters, there's two choices. You can either have hunting sustained harvest within the carrying capacity or you can lose it all. You can't protect them and do it.
Doug Nelson:I can discuss this for hours. Maybe we'll do it another time. Yeah.
Katie Burke:No. It's very interesting. And so I wanted so how long were you in the Fish and Wildlife Service?
Doug Nelson:What? Working with them? Yeah. Only a couple of summer, basically.
Katie Burke:Alright. So Did when you lived in Wisconsin, did you hunt hunt there too?
Doug Nelson:Oh, yeah. Mostly white tails and ruffed grouse. Yeah. Did a lot of musky fishing.
Katie Burke:Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:You know?
Katie Burke:That's so fun. Yeah. Alright. You got any good hunting stories? Oh.
Katie Burke:Hunting stories are
Doug Nelson:always Probably. You'd have to think about it. You know? I had a buddy shot a goose that went through a lady's bedroom window at the country club Really? At 08:00 on Sunday morning, and we could hear her screaming.
Doug Nelson:And I looked at him and says, I'm not going over there. You shot it. So he ended up paying for the cleaning of the place and the new window, and the sheriff came out. It was quite a fun, exciting time. Lady woke up with a goose running in her bedroom.
Katie Burke:Yeah. That's crazy.
Doug Nelson:Uh-huh.
Katie Burke:I've never heard of a goose going through somebody's bedroom window. Like, well, like, that you had killed. You know, like
Doug Nelson:It was bloody life.
Katie Burke:Yeah. Oh my god. And they're not nice either. No. No.
Katie Burke:Geese are notoriously that's why people don't like them. Yeah. It's kinda me. Alright. Is there anything that we haven't mentioned that you wanna talk about, like call making wise or anything of that?
Katie Burke:Like, I I
Doug Nelson:would encourage if if anybody's ever near Real Foot during this show to stop in, and especially we don't see that many locals. We don't see the guiding outfitters around here. You'd think they'd all stop in and see us. But surprisingly, they don't even know about it. You know?
Katie Burke:Oh, they're right here. Yeah. Alright. So let's so I have a question. So this is the October?
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:Is it always then?
Doug Nelson:Yeah. It's usually around the October usually. Okay. October, right in that area. Okay.
Doug Nelson:Every year.
Katie Burke:And it's like Friday, Saturday, Sunday?
Doug Nelson:It's Friday and Saturday.
Katie Burke:Friday and Saturday.
Doug Nelson:A lot of us get here on Thursday just
Katie Burke:You call makers to You always show up know? Y'all always show up early and y'all stay in one place.
Doug Nelson:And you know what? We had people drive from Minnesota yesterday. I got a friend coming in from Colorado today and a lot of people from Florida. Everybody was dragging last night because a lot of them drove thirteen, fourteen hours to get here.
Katie Burke:Yeah. So I have a question about that because, like, when I think well, one thing I think about, I I love that y'all still come to Real Foot because the history here in call making, I mean, it's very Huge. It's huge. It's very specific to this area. Mhmm.
Katie Burke:That could be a whole episode on itself about the history of RealFoot and call making, but it's steeped in tradition. As someone who studies the history of calls and call making and waterfowling, like, it's very insular to certain areas. Right? Like, have the Real Foot area, you have Arkansas, like, then you have, like, Louisiana has its own thing, Minnesota.
Doug Nelson:Mississippi River in Illinois.
Katie Burke:Illinois. Yeah. So but modern call making has really expanded.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:Do you have do you have anything to contribute that to? Is that just the blowup of the Internet? Like, have people just migrated?
Doug Nelson:I think the Internet's been wonderful for it.
Katie Burke:Yeah. Because it's different for call making. Like, decoy carving has not done that in the same way, but call making has.
Doug Nelson:There's a whole pile of YouTube videos. What do you wanna learn? Yeah. You know? And then you you take it as it is.
Doug Nelson:It's just it's interesting to see it.
Katie Burke:Do you just think it's because it's more accessible call making in People a
Doug Nelson:are more willing to share.
Katie Burke:And y'all do like I mean, how many of the y'all do at least four? Is it four competitions a year or more?
Doug Nelson:Well, the CCAA does the show in Lambert, Illinois. Yep. And that's a fancy call contest. Yep. And that's based on what they look like.
Doug Nelson:Yep. And then we have a working call contest here at Real Foot based on what they sound like. And that's that's duck calls. Okay. Amateur division, professional division.
Doug Nelson:If you don't play, you can't win.
Katie Burke:That's right.
Doug Nelson:So build your call and iterate. You know? Yeah. I was up until this last year, the best I'd ever done was eighth place in the amateurs. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:Frustrated, but I kept plugging
Katie Burke:away. Have a history of plugging away at things. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah.
Doug Nelson:You gotta have fun with your hobbies.
Katie Burke:Yeah. That's very true. So are you gonna make more duck calls now that you think
Doug Nelson:you're make? Brought 18 to the show. Well, see, I'm gonna do some trading. I I already got Brian Byers already traded me out of a nice call already.
Katie Burke:So how many calls do you make a year?
Doug Nelson:Not a lot. Not a lot because concentrating on these laminated calls. This one call right here took me two months to build.
Katie Burke:Okay.
Doug Nelson:Because I'm experimenting, I'm learning more. So I might build a call, but you won't see the big bucket or leftover oops pieces that I threw away. And I I burned some beautiful firewood.
Katie Burke:Oh, it's heavy.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. That's desert ironwood. No. That's that's bloodwood, that call. But, yeah, very heavy.
Katie Burke:So yeah. So you're saying like so that's not many. I mean, if you're doing two months a year, that's like
Doug Nelson:No. I usually build a bunch of calls to bring to Real Foot to do some trading. And then this summer was so hot. I just lived out in the air condition shop and enjoyed it. It was fun.
Doug Nelson:Yeah. You know? But I usually spend October, November, December, January trying to build some calls for the Lambert show. And I got some wild ideas again for next year.
Katie Burke:Do you put anything in at Wild Turkey in Nashville?
Doug Nelson:No. Never been to that. Yeah. And I can't afford to go to that, but it's okay.
Katie Burke:That's okay. And you know what I wonder? And I always wonder why, and I don't know if you have answered for this, but there's the callcom the call calling competition that's in Easton. Why don't we do more of a call maker stuff in Easton? I don't know.
Katie Burke:Because goose wise, it's it's much more heavy
Doug Nelson:Yeah. I goose don't know I never I don't know much about that.
Katie Burke:I have to ask Brian that because I was thinking about that on the way here because when because I knew you were I knew you would have goose calls.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:And, Yeah. I was thinking about on the way here is where that's so much more prevalent because that's where the goose calling competition is.
Doug Nelson:Am not a great goose caller.
Katie Burke:Well, you can
Doug Nelson:I'm a good goose hunter because I know how to hunt geese. And that doesn't include calling them the best season I ever had. I left my call in a truck.
Katie Burke:But I'm not a good duck caller either. And I never had
Doug Nelson:Nothing makes me happier than handing one of my goose calls to a guy that knows how to run it and make that sweet music just brings a big old smile to my face. We're gonna do that in a couple hours here.
Katie Burke:Yeah. That'll be fun. Yeah. We can't wait to see it.
Doug Nelson:Yeah.
Katie Burke:All right. Well, Doug, thank you for doing this.
Doug Nelson:Thanks for having me.
Katie Burke:This really fun. Yeah. And I'm glad I got to come down today.
Doug Nelson:Good.
Katie Burke:It's much better than sitting in my office.
Doug Nelson:Absolutely.
Katie Burke:Alright. Well Cool. Thank, thank you for coming on the show.
Doug Nelson:Thank you.
Katie Burke:Enjoy the show here and
Doug Nelson:Oh, yeah.
Katie Burke:Real Foot. Alright. Thanks, Doug for coming on the show. Thanks to our producer, Chris Isaac, and thanks to you, our listener, for spawning wetlands and waterfowl conservation.
VO:Thank you for listening to the DU podcast, sponsored by Purina Pro Plan, the official performance dog food of Ducks Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan, always advancing. Also proudly sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey and Cocktails. Whether you're winding down with your best friend or celebrating with your favorite crew, Bird Dog brings award winning flavor to every moment. Enjoy responsibly.
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